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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
At the very least, Suze is making a blanket statement that does not apply to everyone. ...
Granted, there is an articulation agreement between the community college system in Colorado and some of the public universities regarding accepting certain courses, but some will count for elective credit only. ...
Here are the degree requirements for the nursing program at my university: https://www.nursing.pitt.edu/degree-...2018-2019-2020 Find some of these courses which must be taken freshman/sophomore year, in any CC catalog. Most of these are nursing courses specific to this university.
You need a better state EDU program... there are better options.
Many CC's in other states offer 4yr degrees (usually) in skilled careers (such as Nursing)
So many wonderful options for college students today, tho... the tuition has been abused by the porkers running the system. Feeds them well, they make the rules, they are dying from obesity (at a tremendous disservice to students) and even more disservice to parents who struggle to pay inflated property taxes (schools) and college tuition for Johnnie (for some unknown reason)
EDU Money is CHEAP and EZ for students. (too ez)
Tuition is VERY Expensive and risky for parents and grandparents.
Students should have protested / taken control of the tuition crisis and lack of professor quality 20 yrs ago. (But instead were content to be 'entitled' by their 'funding parents'. )
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 10-02-2018 at 10:24 PM..
Granted, there is an articulation agreement between the community college system in Colorado and some of the public universities regarding accepting certain courses, but some will count for elective credit only. As you can see, some of these special courses which FRCC nor any CC in Colorado likely offer need to be taken freshman year.
Here are the degree requirements for the nursing program at my university: https://www.nursing.pitt.edu/degree-...2018-2019-2020
Find some of these courses which must be taken freshman/sophomore year, in any CC catalog. Most of these are nursing courses specific to this university.
I can’t do any of that without seeing the community college curriculum guide, and who they have reciprocal agreements with. I didn’t say would work for every single major at every single 4 year school but I guarantee you there are engineer in nursing 4 years that they have agreements with. For the nursing program you linked the majority of those courses listed are available at CC’s.
I can’t do any of that without seeing the community college curriculum guide, and who they have reciprocal agreements with. I didn’t say would work for every single major at every single 4 year school but I guarantee you there are engineer in nursing 4 years that they have agreements with. For the nursing program you linked the majority of those courses listed are available at CC’s.
That's a cop-out! Find this course's equivalent at any CC.
CHEM 0910 Chemistry for the health professions
How about this one-
NUR 0001 Freshman Seminar - Nursing Students
Or these: NUR 0051 Introduction to Professional Nursing 3 cr.
NUR 0086 Nursing Informatics 2 cr.
These are freshman courses that must be taken..
Here are some sophomore courses:NUR 0020 Pathophysiologic Foundations of Nursing Care 4 cr.
NUR 0080 Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 3.5 cr.
NUR 0080C Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 Clinical 1.5 cr.
NUR 0087 Pharmacology and Therapeutics 3 cr.
NUR 1680 Introduction to Genetics & Molecular Therapeutics* 3 cr.
Second semester, sophomore year:. NUR 0081 Foundations of Nursing Practice 2 2 cr.
NUR 0082 Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems 3 cr.
NUR 0082C Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems Clinical 4 cr.
NUR 0067 Nursing Research: Introduction to Critical Appraisal & Evidence Based Practice 3 cr.
Sociology 3 cr.
NUR 0066 Nutrition for Clinical Practice*/++ 3 cr.
TOTAL 18 cr.
I can assure you the Pitt faculty will not consider CC nursing courses equivalent.
That's a cop-out! Find this course's equivalent at any CC.
CHEM 0910 Chemistry for the health professions
How about this one-
NUR 0001 Freshman Seminar - Nursing Students
Or these: NUR 0051 Introduction to Professional Nursing 3 cr.
NUR 0086 Nursing Informatics 2 cr.
These are freshman courses that must be taken..
Here are some sophomore courses:NUR 0020 Pathophysiologic Foundations of Nursing Care 4 cr.
NUR 0080 Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 3.5 cr.
NUR 0080C Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 Clinical 1.5 cr.
NUR 0087 Pharmacology and Therapeutics 3 cr.
NUR 1680 Introduction to Genetics & Molecular Therapeutics* 3 cr.
Second semester, sophomore year:. NUR 0081 Foundations of Nursing Practice 2 2 cr.
NUR 0082 Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems 3 cr.
NUR 0082C Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems Clinical 4 cr.
NUR 0067 Nursing Research: Introduction to Critical Appraisal & Evidence Based Practice 3 cr.
Sociology 3 cr.
NUR 0066 Nutrition for Clinical Practice*/++ 3 cr.
TOTAL 18 cr.
I can assure you the Pitt faculty will not consider CC nursing courses equivalent.
Along a vaguely similar line. My son hit undergrad with around 30 dual credits and 4 (maybe 5) AP classes with 5 test scores. The university premedical advisor convinced him to not use either the AP credits nor the community college hours toward his biology or physics degree paths. He ended up using some (12 hrs. IIRC) as free electives.
Points:
1). His undergrad program, with a ~100yr. + track record getting lots of kids into medical schools and affiliation with one of the country's leading medical schools, had data and testimonials indicating its core bio, chem, math, physics etc. were more demanding and prepared kids better boradly for MCAT, medical and graduate schooling etc.
1.A). After taking these core classes a second time - kid noted night and day degree of difficulty and expectational differences between the university versions and AP or community college versions of the same class. An example, the first 4hr. bio. for majors course at university required classroom time, lab time and lab lecture time with tests and quizzes in all three (the class actually required 6 hrs. per week one week and 5 the next). The CC version did not have a seperate lab lecture at all and according to kiddo the CC lab was about 25% as demanding.
2). The school had letters from medical schools and Ph.D programs/mentors noting varying degrees of preference for university hours over CC and AP hours. My kid told me about one GREAT/big name medical school back east that claimed to sometimes use university hrs. over AP and CC hours as a tie-breaker. The school also had many letters from past students recommending that CC/AP hours not be used in the pre-med pathways save as electives.
3). To be sure people can and do make dual credit, CC and or AP + regular college work. It's just suboptimal for many.
Another worry is it seems that the college portions of dual-credit programs are even more watered down than regular community college.
_____________________
Anecdotal for certain but I have some direct experience as well. Due to an oddball set of circumstance I taught two undergraduate economics classes (first micro and macro) at a University of California system school for four semesters. Overlapping the first of those semesters I also taught micro at CC not too far away. After some discussion the director at the CC he flat out said teach this class at about 75-80% of the UC class.
That's a cop-out! Find this course's equivalent at any CC.
CHEM 0910 Chemistry for the health professions
How about this one-
NUR 0001 Freshman Seminar - Nursing Students
Or these: NUR 0051 Introduction to Professional Nursing 3 cr.
NUR 0086 Nursing Informatics 2 cr.
These are freshman courses that must be taken..
Here are some sophomore courses:NUR 0020 Pathophysiologic Foundations of Nursing Care 4 cr.
NUR 0080 Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 3.5 cr.
NUR 0080C Foundations of Nursing Practice 1 Clinical 1.5 cr.
NUR 0087 Pharmacology and Therapeutics 3 cr.
NUR 1680 Introduction to Genetics & Molecular Therapeutics* 3 cr.
Second semester, sophomore year:. NUR 0081 Foundations of Nursing Practice 2 2 cr.
NUR 0082 Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems 3 cr.
NUR 0082C Nursing Management of the Adult with Acute/Chronic Health Problems Clinical 4 cr.
NUR 0067 Nursing Research: Introduction to Critical Appraisal & Evidence Based Practice 3 cr.
Sociology 3 cr.
NUR 0066 Nutrition for Clinical Practice*/++ 3 cr.
TOTAL 18 cr.
I can assure you the Pitt faculty will not consider CC nursing courses equivalent.
I'm not sure why other people are listening to Sze Ormond's irresponsible, broad stroke statement and taking them as "Gospel" when a registered nurse with a BSN is telling you that the advice does not work for everyone or in every field.
As an RN I am coming in for reinforcement.
Poster Katerina Witt has shared on City Data that she has a BSN from University of Pittsburgh. She has been a professional nurse for over 25 years. She was involved with her children's more resent higher educations.
She knows more about nursing education, and the ins and outs of transferring credit WAY MORE than Suze Ormond.
I do too. I am a Registered Nurse who has been inactive in the field. I have a diploma in Registered Nursing from a now defunct Hospital School of Nursing in Queens, NYC, and a Bachelors degree from Stony Brook University, in another subject.
Although I am not currently working as a nurse, I stay abreast of the nursing profession and nurse education. I still receive two professional journals.
I am also an independent academic counselor.
Three years ago, when my daughter was applying to college, she thought seriously about studying for her BSN at a 4 year private university. We looked at several programs. She decided instead to get a degree in another subject, while taking pre-allied health classes at the four year college. She is interested in becoming a Nurse Practitioner, for which she will need an MSN.
Never once did she even THINK about first attending a community college and then attempting to transfer her ADN (Associates Degree in Nursing) to a four year college.
There were many reasons why we did not give thought to going that route, but to stay on topic, the MAIN reason is it's TOO TIME CONSUMING. To DIFFICLT and ultimately TOO EXPENSIVE.
Here's why. Nursing credits, courses designated "NUR" or something similar, are notoriously DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE to transfer. Usually IMPOSSIBLE.
Unless the two year institution has an articulation agreement with a for year college, you will be royally screwed when it comes time to transfer.
IF the CC has an articulation agreement, it will limit the transfer to one or two institutions of higher learning. If circumstances change, and the student nurse's family moves, or for what ever reason they cannot continue on at the 4 year college, she is still screwed.
Even the BEST articulation agreements, that attempt a seamless transfer, will have twists and turns that will ultimately make the transfer more difficult and protracted.
Off the top of my head, I do not even know about one "seamless" transfer from a community college to a four year college. Not one.
The real problem begins way back in community college before transfer to a nursing program is even a thought.
Most (I am tempted to say "all" but there may be a few exceptions to the general rule) community colleges have limited slots in their nursing program. Most also require the completion of several classes designated as "Pre-Nursing" before the student is ultimately accepted into the nursing program. It varies as to college, but that is the usual curriculum.
So, a nursing student must take Pre Nursing before they enter actual nurse training. Pre-nursing generally involves :
Anatomy and and Physiology I and II - these classes are sequential and may not be taken in the same semester, so right here, the idea of "graduation from college in for years is a pipe dream. - (4 credits per class)
Microbiology (4 credits)
English Composition I and II. (3 credits each)
Psychology or Sociology (sometimes BOTH) (3 credits each)
Now we have already added a FULL YEAR on to the four year graduation.
Human Growth and Development or Developmental Psychology. (Psych I or General or Intro to Psychology is a pre-requisites for HG and D) Those classes build on each other, as do A&P I ad II.
AFTER completing the Pre-Nursing courses, usually with a grade of "B" or better, the student will be invited to enter the Nursing program. If there is room, the student may start the following semester. If not, they will have to take other classes while waiting for a slot to be available in Nur I ( Intro to Nursing, Fundamentals of Nursing etc.)
However, many times there is not a seat in the first actual nursing class. That means that for one or two semesters, the would be nursing student will be waiting to being clinical classes.
If she is lucky, the average time to graduate from a community college with an associates degree in nursing - an ADN, which is a TWO YEAR DEGREE will be THREE to THREE and a HALF years. It could be more and often is.
Then, assuming the student wants to continue on for their Bachelors degree, they will have to apply to a four year college. UNLESS there is an active articulation agreement, NO NURSING courses will transfer)
Science, Social Science, Statistics, etc. classes will usually transfer, but Nur I,II, III and IV are lost.
So the plan to save money, by first attending a community college is FLAWED.
While wasting time at community college, another student, who directly entered a 4 year college has graduated, taken and passed the nursing boards, while the student who tried to save money is stuck in school.
This is true of nursing, and it is true of many other majors. The "Two-Two" plan almost never works out that way. It might better be called the "3.5-2.5" plan. At any rate, it's time consuming and robs the student of an uninterrupted, less stressful college experience.
I'm not sure why other people are listening to Sze Ormond's irresponsible, broad stroke statement and taking them as "Gospel" when a registered nurse with a BSN is telling you that the advice does not work for everyone or in every field.
As an RN I am coming in for reinforcement.
Poster Katerina Witt has shared on City Data that she has a BSN from University of Pittsburgh. She has been a professional nurse for over 25 years. She was involved with her children's more resent higher educations.
She knows more about nursing education, and the ins and outs of transferring credit WAY MORE than Suze Ormond.
I do too. I am a Registered Nurse who has been inactive in the field. I have a diploma in Registered Nursing from a now defunct Hospital School of Nursing in Queens, NYC, and a Bachelors degree from Stony Brook University, in another subject.
Although I am not currently working as a nurse, I stay abreast of the nursing profession and nurse education. I still receive two professional journals.
I am also an independent academic counselor.
Three years ago, when my daughter was applying to college, she thought seriously about studying for her BSN at a 4 year private university. We looked at several programs. She decided instead to get a degree in another subject, while taking pre-allied health classes at the four year college. She is interested in becoming a Nurse Practitioner, for which she will need an MSN.
Never once did she even THINK about first attending a community college and then attempting to transfer her ADN (Associates Degree in Nursing) to a four year college.
There were many reasons why we did not give thought to going that route, but to stay on topic, the MAIN reason is it's TOO TIME CONSUMING. To DIFFICLT and ultimately TOO EXPENSIVE.
Here's why. Nursing credits, courses designated "NUR" or something similar, are notoriously DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE to transfer. Usually IMPOSSIBLE.
Unless the two year institution has an articulation agreement with a for year college, you will be royally screwed when it comes time to transfer.
IF the CC has an articulation agreement, it will limit the transfer to one or two institutions of higher learning. If circumstances change, and the student nurse's family moves, or for what ever reason they cannot continue on at the 4 year college, she is still screwed.
Even the BEST articulation agreements, that attempt a seamless transfer, will have twists and turns that will ultimately make the transfer more difficult and protracted.
Off the top of my head, I do not even know about one "seamless" transfer from a community college to a four year college. Not one.
The real problem begins way back in community college before transfer to a nursing program is even a thought.
Most (I am tempted to say "all" but there may be a few exceptions to the general rule) community colleges have limited slots in their nursing program. Most also require the completion of several classes designated as "Pre-Nursing" before the student is ultimately accepted into the nursing program. It varies as to college, but that is the usual curriculum.
So, a nursing student must take Pre Nursing before they enter actual nurse training. Pre-nursing generally involves :
Anatomy and and Physiology I and II - these classes are sequential and may not be taken in the same semester, so right here, the idea of "graduation from college in for years is a pipe dream. - (4 credits per class)
Microbiology (4 credits)
English Composition I and II. (3 credits each)
Psychology or Sociology (sometimes BOTH) (3 credits each)
Now we have already added a FULL YEAR on to the four year graduation.
Human Growth and Development or Developmental Psychology. (Psych I or General or Intro to Psychology is a pre-requisites for HG and D) Those classes build on each other, as do A&P I ad II.
AFTER completing the Pre-Nursing courses, usually with a grade of "B" or better, the student will be invited to enter the Nursing program. If there is room, the student may start the following semester. If not, they will have to take other classes while waiting for a slot to be available in Nur I ( Intro to Nursing, Fundamentals of Nursing etc.)
However, many times there is not a seat in the first actual nursing class. That means that for one or two semesters, the would be nursing student will be waiting to being clinical classes.
If she is lucky, the average time to graduate from a community college with an associates degree in nursing - an ADN, which is a TWO YEAR DEGREE will be THREE to THREE and a HALF years. It could be more and often is.
Then, assuming the student wants to continue on for their Bachelors degree, they will have to apply to a four year college. UNLESS there is an active articulation agreement, NO NURSING courses will transfer)
Science, Social Science, Statistics, etc. classes will usually transfer, but Nur I,II, III and IV are lost.
So the plan to save money, by first attending a community college is FLAWED.
While wasting time at community college, another student, who directly entered a 4 year college has graduated, taken and passed the nursing boards, while the student who tried to save money is stuck in school.
This is true of nursing, and it is true of many other majors. The "Two-Two" plan almost never works out that way. It might better be called the "3.5-2.5" plan. At any rate, it's time consuming and robs the student of an uninterrupted, less stressful college experience.
It saved me tens of thousands in my O.T. Degree. I not only got accepted into this highly competitive program at a great school (Thomas Jefferson U), I got a $6,000 award because I had the highest GPA of the incoming class, they did not care that it was from a CC.
It was easy even back then to make sure I was taking classes that were required and that would transfer.Today they have sites like Transferology that make it even easier. Every one of my anatomy and other science and math (Statistics and chemistry) as well as all the psychology classes were accepted, as I knew they would because as I said that information was easy to find even then.
Yes I had to take an extra year and take some summer courses , but that’s because I didn’t decide on OT until I had already done 2 semesters, and I was going part time and working
For me it was well worth it. No one said it works for every major but is a great way for many.
It is the blanket “This is a terrible option for anyone” that I object to. It is simply not true.
It saved me tens of thousands in my O.T. Degree. I not only got accepted into this highly competitive program at a great school (Thomas Jefferson U), I got a $6,000 award because I had the highest GPA of the incoming class, they did not care that it was from a CC.
It was easy even back then to make sure I was taking classes that were required and that would transfer.Today they have sites like Transferology that make it even easier. Every one of my anatomy and other science and math (Statistics and chemistry) as well as all the psychology classes were accepted, as I knew they would because as I said that information was easy to find even then.
Yes I had to take an extra year and take some summer courses , but that’s because I didn’t decide on OT until I had already done 2 semesters, and I was going part time and working
For me it was well worth it. No one said it works for every major but is a great way for many.
It is the blanket “This is a terrible option for anyone” that I object to. It is simply not true.
It can work in some subjects. I'm glad it worked for you. It doesn't work for everyone.
What I object to, are people like Suze Ormond, ranting about how this saves "everyone" money, and acting as though people who do not first attend a community college are somehow wasteful, self indigent and extravagant.
My husband, who posts here sometimes did this. It took him 3.5 years to graduate and that was with an articulation agreement between his community college and his university.
He also made no friends along the way, had to maintain a car, had a part time job - as most CC students do, which had a negative impact on his GPA.
Not attending a residential college is his greatest and only regret in life.
I'm not sure why other people are listening to Sze Ormond's irresponsible, broad stroke statement and taking them as "Gospel" when a registered nurse with a BSN is telling you that the advice does not work for everyone or in every field.
As an RN I am coming in for reinforcement.
Poster Katerina Witt has shared on City Data that she has a BSN from University of Pittsburgh. She has been a professional nurse for over 25 years. She was involved with her children's more resent higher educations.
She knows more about nursing education, and the ins and outs of transferring credit WAY MORE than Suze Ormond.
I do too. I am a Registered Nurse who has been inactive in the field. I have a diploma in Registered Nursing from a now defunct Hospital School of Nursing in Queens, NYC, and a Bachelors degree from Stony Brook University, in another subject.
Although I am not currently working as a nurse, I stay abreast of the nursing profession and nurse education. I still receive two professional journals.
I am also an independent academic counselor.
Three years ago, when my daughter was applying to college, she thought seriously about studying for her BSN at a 4 year private university. We looked at several programs. She decided instead to get a degree in another subject, while taking pre-allied health classes at the four year college. She is interested in becoming a Nurse Practitioner, for which she will need an MSN.
Never once did she even THINK about first attending a community college and then attempting to transfer her ADN (Associates Degree in Nursing) to a four year college.
There were many reasons why we did not give thought to going that route, but to stay on topic, the MAIN reason is it's TOO TIME CONSUMING. To DIFFICLT and ultimately TOO EXPENSIVE.
Here's why. Nursing credits, courses designated "NUR" or something similar, are notoriously DIFFICULT if not IMPOSSIBLE to transfer. Usually IMPOSSIBLE.
Unless the two year institution has an articulation agreement with a for year college, you will be royally screwed when it comes time to transfer.
IF the CC has an articulation agreement, it will limit the transfer to one or two institutions of higher learning. If circumstances change, and the student nurse's family moves, or for what ever reason they cannot continue on at the 4 year college, she is still screwed.
Even the BEST articulation agreements, that attempt a seamless transfer, will have twists and turns that will ultimately make the transfer more difficult and protracted.
Off the top of my head, I do not even know about one "seamless" transfer from a community college to a four year college. Not one.
The real problem begins way back in community college before transfer to a nursing program is even a thought.
Most (I am tempted to say "all" but there may be a few exceptions to the general rule) community colleges have limited slots in their nursing program. Most also require the completion of several classes designated as "Pre-Nursing" before the student is ultimately accepted into the nursing program. It varies as to college, but that is the usual curriculum.
So, a nursing student must take Pre Nursing before they enter actual nurse training. Pre-nursing generally involves :
Anatomy and and Physiology I and II - these classes are sequential and may not be taken in the same semester, so right here, the idea of "graduation from college in for years is a pipe dream. - (4 credits per class)
Microbiology (4 credits)
English Composition I and II. (3 credits each)
Psychology or Sociology (sometimes BOTH) (3 credits each)
Now we have already added a FULL YEAR on to the four year graduation.
Human Growth and Development or Developmental Psychology. (Psych I or General or Intro to Psychology is a pre-requisites for HG and D) Those classes build on each other, as do A&P I ad II.
AFTER completing the Pre-Nursing courses, usually with a grade of "B" or better, the student will be invited to enter the Nursing program. If there is room, the student may start the following semester. If not, they will have to take other classes while waiting for a slot to be available in Nur I ( Intro to Nursing, Fundamentals of Nursing etc.)
However, many times there is not a seat in the first actual nursing class. That means that for one or two semesters, the would be nursing student will be waiting to being clinical classes.
If she is lucky, the average time to graduate from a community college with an associates degree in nursing - an ADN, which is a TWO YEAR DEGREE will be THREE to THREE and a HALF years. It could be more and often is.
Then, assuming the student wants to continue on for their Bachelors degree, they will have to apply to a four year college. UNLESS there is an active articulation agreement, NO NURSING courses will transfer)
Science, Social Science, Statistics, etc. classes will usually transfer, but Nur I,II, III and IV are lost.
So the plan to save money, by first attending a community college is FLAWED.
While wasting time at community college, another student, who directly entered a 4 year college has graduated, taken and passed the nursing boards, while the student who tried to save money is stuck in school.
This is true of nursing, and it is true of many other majors. The "Two-Two" plan almost never works out that way. It might better be called the "3.5-2.5" plan. At any rate, it's time consuming and robs the student of an uninterrupted, less stressful college experience.
It saved me tens of thousands in my O.T. Degree. I not only got accepted into this highly competitive program at a great school (Thomas Jefferson U), I got a $6,000 award because I had the highest GPA of the incoming class, they did not care that it was from a CC.
It was easy even back then to make sure I was taking classes that were required and that would transfer.Today they have sites like Transferology that make it even easier. Every one of my anatomy and other science and math (Statistics and chemistry) as well as all the psychology classes were accepted, as I knew they would because as I said that information was easy to find even then.
Yes I had to take an extra year and take some summer courses , but that’s because I didn’t decide on OT until I had already done 2 semesters, and I was going part time and working
For me it was well worth it. No one said it works for every major but is a great way for many.
It is the blanket “This is a terrible option for anyone” that I object to. It is simply not true.
Errm, apparently, Suze said it. See below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
Suze Ormon advises people to take their basics at a community college for 2 years, then transfer to a state university. And work part time while in college. People who follow this advice wind up with far less debt.
Having said that, many community colleges and state universities are starting to increase their tuition as well. If this trend does not reverse, only the very wealthy will be able to get degrees in the future.
The one making the blanket statements is Suze. No one commented on my engineering example, either.
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