Driving in Colorado. (Denver, Fort Collins, Pueblo: gated, live in, law)

[Idlewile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE H

Agreed. I've been on some of those roads, definitely a different type of hazard.

Another hazard you run into when you are going on that highway that Jazzlover posted on is rocks. We're in the middle of the monsoon season; sadly this year we're not getting the moisture we've had from previous years. But four years ago there was a fatality in that area. After a heavy rain a rock the size of a basketball went through the top of a rag top Jeep, hitting the driver and killing him. The only reason the jeep didn't go off the embankment is that the passenger had presence of mind to pull the emergency brake and turn the wheel.

I pick my times whenever I go through the area because I know what damage even small rocks can do, particularly the windshield. One time a couple decades ago I had a rock shaped like a dictionary suddenly land in the truck bed of my '77 Dodge. It could easily have gone through the moon roof. I was lucky.

I agree on all accounts. The roads in TX are nothing like the roads in CO as far as overall hazard; tress and blind curves are the least of it. Further, you add in the weather AND inexperienced driving in slick and snowy conditions and it can make for a recipe for disaster. Even though a large percentage of Texas drivers are morons, and learning to drive among them is certainly a feat, it's unrelated since the driving hazards in CO having nothing to do with other drivers, other than hopefully you wont hurt someone else when you're careening across 5 lines of traffic because you didn't react properly to the black ice under the snow.

[DaynaKH]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are no highways in Texas like this:



(US550 south of Ouray)

Yes, it is a US Highway used by semis and regular traffic, in addition to tourists--all year-round.

Nope! Not here at least! The closest you'll find like that are in the hill country, and I never drive those roads.

Then again, I only stated that I could deal with curves.

Rocks are something else entirely. So is a 1000' drop off.

[Katarina Witt]

This thread is cracking me up. Rest assured, Dayna, I'm not laughing at YOU. I'm laughing b/c one of my comrades on another thread was surprised to hear that we talk about driving in the snow year-round here on the CO forums.

You will learn to drive in snow, Dayna, if you move here. You mentioned fall, winter, spring and summer. You can drive in snow in all four seasons in the mtns, the first three in metro Denver. I have been in Texas but never driven there. I will say, Dallas is the first and only place DH ever got lost in all the driving trips we've taken to strange areas. (Strange to us, that is) I think some of the signage in Denver itself *sucks*, but it has improved over the years. One of the most frustrating things to me as a newcomer was that there seems to be no uniform language on the interstates. One sign will say (for example) "Street X next right", meaning the next one coming, and another sign will say the same thing and mean the exit after the one you are fast approaching, which you find out when you get off the highway.

[edmiii]

My experience as a tourist in Colorado in summer/fall has been mixed, and I really do enjoy traveling the 2-lane mountain and rural highways. Weather has not been an issue. This is from over 10 trips to Co over the last 30+ years.

Biggest negative is the aggressiveness of the local (in state) drivers, both in excessive speed and dangerous passing, which is reflected in the number of head-on and rollover crashes. Read the Durango Herald on-line for a few days, you'll see what I mean.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by edmiii

My experience as a tourist in Colorado in summer/fall has been mixed, and I really do enjoy traveling the 2-lane mountain and rural highways. Weather has not been an issue. This is from over 10 trips to Co over the last 30+ years.

Biggest negative is the aggressiveness of the local (in state) drivers, both in excessive speed and dangerous passing, which is reflected in the number of head-on and rollover crashes. Read the Durango Herald on-line for a few days, you'll see what I mean.

You may be misreading what you think is aggressiveness in local drivers. One of the biggest sins practiced by flatland tourist drivers is going the speed limit or over on straight stretches of mountain roads (making it impossible for them to be passed there), then slowing down to 15 or 20 mph below the recommended speed on curves (because they don't know how to drive them). That will infuriate experienced local drivers, who know better than to speed on straight-aways and also know at what speed curves can be successfully negotiated. That is especially true for those of us who have driven the same mountain highways hundreds or thousands of times, under all road conditions, compared to the average "pilgrim" who probably has only driven the road once or a few times in his or her whole life.

In my particular case, I've driven nearly every major (and most secondary and "back road") mountain highways in Colorado and northern New Mexico hundreds or thousands of times, in all seasons and conditions, over the last four decades--without a single accident on any of them. And I can usually tell who is a "local" and who hasn't driven mountain roads often within the first five minutes that I'm following them. Ask me about any mountain road in Colorado, and I can probably tell you things like, "Don't think you can speed through that particular curve because it is not tangent (same degree of curvature through the curve)," or "Be careful in winter around Milepost 'X' because the road is off-camber toward the edge there and you may slip off in icy conditions if you lose traction." Only a lot of miles and a lot of experience teach that kind of stuff, and most tourists and newbie residents lack both.

[NW Crow]

If you are in front of me, you or anyone can take a corner at whatever speed you want. If I am in front of you and it is one lane, I'll take it at the speed that makes sense to me at the moment, within reasonable bounds.

[edmiii]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

You may be misreading what you think is aggressiveness in local drivers. One of the biggest sins practiced by flatland tourist drivers is going the speed limit or over on straight stretches of mountain roads (making it impossible for them to be passed there), then slowing down to 15 or 20 mph below the recommended speed on curves (because they don't know how to drive them). That will infuriate experienced local drivers, who know better than to speed on straight-aways and also know at what speed curves can be successfully negotiated. That is especially true for those of us who have driven the same mountain highways hundreds or thousands of times, under all road conditions, compared to the average "pilgrim" who probably has only driven the road once or a few times in his or her whole life.

In my particular case, I've driven nearly every major (and most secondary and "back road") mountain highways in Colorado and northern New Mexico hundreds or thousands of times, in all seasons and conditions, over the last four decades--without a single accident on any of them. And I can usually tell who is a "local" and who hasn't driven mountain roads often within the first five minutes that I'm following them. Ask me about any mountain road in Colorado, and I can probably tell you things like, "Don't think you can speed through that particular curve because it is not tangent (same degree of curvature through the curve)," or "Be careful in winter around Milepost 'X' because the road is off-camber toward the edge there and you may slip off in icy conditions if you lose traction." Only a lot of miles and a lot of experience teach that kind of stuff, and most tourists and newbie residents lack both.

Sorry Jazzlover, I've read dozens of your posts and seldom disagree. But in this case, I do. I seldom exceed the speed limit (particularly when I'm out of state), I am an experienced mountain and rural driver, I don't slow excessively for twisty roads, and I'm not talking about snow/ice. I try to be courteous, and will drop speed on a tangent 2-lane to allow following traffic to pass.

What I am talking about is native state drivers that drive substantially over the limit and take chances in passing on 2-lane roads (I'm driving the speed limit, and the vehicle that passes me is out of view in a minute or so). My experience has been most are young adults. I read the Durango paper online daily (used to read the Salida paper until it went subscription only), and it seems rare if 2 days go by without a piece on a fatal accident, and the majority involve in-state drivers and the minority of accidents being weather-related.

A typical vacation for me is a 6-10 days in Colorado, and 1000-1200 miles while there, most all 2 lane paved roads during daylight hours. I get more than enough urban and interstate driving here at home (Memphis).

Sorry if you took offense at my comments, just my experience over the years.

[NW Crow]

If I am being more cautious than average (which sometimes is the case, sometimes not), I'll usually pull over and let someone pass as soon as it is safe and convenient to do so. If you charge up to my back bumper and act hostile, I might not. I've even slowed down a few times when the folks doing this are extreme.

[CosmicWizard]

jazzlover wrote: One of the biggest sins practiced by flatland tourist drivers is going the speed limit or over on straight stretches of mountain roads (making it impossible for them to be passed there), then slowing down to 15 or 20 mph below the recommended speed on curves (because they don't know how to drive them). That will infuriate experienced local drivers,

Makes me wonder how experienced they really are. A truly experienced driver would KNOW that this is how the inexperienced driver drives on these type of roads, and they would make the necessary emotional adjustment to allow for this. Anger Management might be helpful!

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by edmiii

What I am talking about is native state drivers that drive substantially over the limit and take chances in passing on 2-lane roads (I'm driving the speed limit, and the vehicle that passes me is out of view in a minute or so). My experience has been most are young adults. I read the Durango paper online daily (used to read the Salida paper until it went subscription only), and it seems rare if 2 days go by without a piece on a fatal accident, and the majority involve in-state drivers and the minority of accidents being weather-related.

Please define "native state drivers." Bluntly, most people living in Durango, for example, are from someplace else and probably have not lived in the area a long time. If they are young drivers, as you point out, they probably aren't very experienced, either. That's a little different than those of us who have lived here and driven here for decades.