Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,036,872 times
Reputation: 28903
Advertisements
I'm paraphrasing here, but I heard two or so minutes of Omar Thornton's four-minute 911 call after he'd shot and killed eight people:
"...I wish I could have gotten more of the people..."
I really thought I'd throw up. Even the sound of his voice made me sick to my stomach.
Even if the curse words that I'd use to describe that dirtbag wouldn't be edited out on this forum, they're not even strong enough in this case.
Oh, I just found the transcript (audio and text) on www.ctnow.com. I'd link them here, but I don't want to give Omar Thornton additional minutes of fame, even in death.
The 911 excerpt in the Courant today made me sick. The shooter said he wished he could have killed more people.
For the past two months we have been bombarded by stories in the media about race. In the two weeks leading up to the shooting all the major networks had special segments on racial relations in light of the Shirley Sherod messes up by the Obama administration. The current ethics investigations with Maxine Waters and Charlie Rangel also threw racism into the public arena and it has been dicussed extensively. IMHO, this issue has been purposely exploited for political purposes.
I can't help but wonder if the titilating story teasers and sensational special reports didn't factor into the shooter's motivation envisioning himself as being famous for what he had done.
Disgusting, truly disgusting. My prayers go to the victims and their families who no longer have their husband/father/brother/grandfather in their lives because of this selfish coward.
Last edited by Lincolnian; 08-06-2010 at 05:36 AM..
I think race is something of a red herring in this whole discussion. Like most workplace shooters, the guy obviously had serious issues with paranoia. He felt unjustly persecuted, and because of the difference in race between him and most of his colleagues, race was the story he used to tell himself it was OK to take a violent, wildly disproportionate revenge. If he hadn't been black, he would've put some other "frame" around it: politics, religion, or some idiosyncratic fantasy of his own.
What I can't stand is people's desires to be reductive about the whole thing -- to put it in a neat little package that confirms their preexisting beliefs. A guy went nuts, and murdered a lot of people: end of story, pretty much. If genuine racism was present in the workplace, that probably helped to trigger his paranoia into high gear. We're unlikely to ever really know what the situation with that was, but I usually assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle -- and as a friend of mine pointed out, if the guy was paranoid, there's a good chance that he was provocative and tried to escalate situations in order to confirm his paranoid suspicions, and give him an excuse to unleash his rage.
Nothing can excuse what he did, but neither should it be an opportunity for anyone among us to thump their chest about their preexisting views on race, gun control, or anything else. Honestly, I think the best and kindest thing we can do is to shut the hell up. Nothing anyone says here will aid the victims or their families, and whipping ourselves into a frothing rage on the Internet certainly won't help. Sometimes the only decent thing to do is to bow your head in silence, and look for chances to do better in your daily life.
I think race is something of a red herring in this whole discussion. Like most workplace shooters, the guy obviously had serious issues with paranoia. He felt unjustly persecuted, and because of the difference in race between him and most of his colleagues, race was the story he used to tell himself it was OK to take a violent, wildly disproportionate revenge. If he hadn't been black, he would've put some other "frame" around it: politics, religion, or some idiosyncratic fantasy of his own.
What I can't stand is people's desires to be reductive about the whole thing -- to put it in a neat little package that confirms their preexisting beliefs. A guy went nuts, and murdered a lot of people: end of story, pretty much. If genuine racism was present in the workplace, that probably helped to trigger his paranoia into high gear. We're unlikely to ever really know what the situation with that was, but I usually assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle -- and as a friend of mine pointed out, if the guy was paranoid, there's a good chance that he was provocative and tried to escalate situations in order to confirm his paranoid suspicions, and give him an excuse to unleash his rage.
Nothing can excuse what he did, but neither should it be an opportunity for anyone among us to thump their chest about their preexisting views on race, gun control, or anything else. Honestly, I think the best and kindest thing we can do is to shut the hell up. Nothing anyone says here will aid the victims or their families, and whipping ourselves into a frothing rage on the Internet certainly won't help. Sometimes the only decent thing to do is to bow your head in silence, and look for chances to do better in your daily life.
Well with all due respect that sounds all nice and all, and I appreciate how you are trying to paint people into their respective boxes but I'm sorry in this case I think you are wrong and your post is full of assumptions.
I suggest you listen to the audio and see if it's a guy gone nuts. Hardly, it was like he was just talking to anyone on any old regular day. This was a cold hearted killer who premeditated the events and had no remorse. HE TOLD US WHY HE DID IT several times. No assumptions about paranoia or other pseudo motives needed.
No one is thumping chests and I will not "sit down and be quiet" as you suggest. No way. These issues need to come out in the open, they need to be talked about and we as a society need to address them.
Dawn, I respect your decision but I'm sorry I am going to post some of his words for the world to see. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
Thornton: I'm in the building. Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yup, I understand that
Thornton: They treat me bad over here, and they treat all the other black employees bad over here too, so I just take it into my own hands and I handled the problem — I wish I coulda got more of the people.
Dispatcher: Yeah. Are you armed, sir? Do you have a weapon with you?
Thornton: Oh yeah, I'm armed.
Dispatcher: How many guns do you have with you?
Thornton: I got one now, there's one out, one out in the uh, the uh, factory there.
Dispatcher: Yup. OK, sir.
Thornton: I'm not gonna kill nobody else, though.
Thornton: These cops are gonna kill me.
Dispatcher: No they're not. We're just gonna have to get you to relax
Thornton: I'm relaxed, just calm down.
Dispatcher: … to have you, you know, turn yourself over.
Thornton: We're just talking, you're gonna play something on the news, you know I'm gonna be popular, right [inaudible] the right thing. SWAT team just rolled by in army gear. You don't know where I'm at, but, I don't know, maybe you can trace it from this phone call. But, yeah, these people here are crazy, they treat me bad from the start here, racist company. They treat me bad, I'm the only black driver they got here. They treat me bad over here, they treat me bad all the time.
Thornton: You don't need to calm me down, I'm already calmed down. I'm not gonna kill nobody else — I just want to tell my story so that you can play it back.
Dispatcher: Yeah, just, you know, where are you located, are you up in the offices?
Thornton: Where they fired me, everything be all right. … Manchester itself is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yeah, we wouldn't want to do it like that, Omar. You know, it's already been a bad enough scene here this morning, we want you to relax.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,036,872 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello
Dawn, I respect your decision but I'm sorry I am going to post some of his words for the world to see. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
Thornton: I'm in the building. Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yup, I understand that
Thornton: They treat me bad over here, and they treat all the other black employees bad over here too, so I just take it into my own hands and I handled the problem — I wish I coulda got more of the people.
Dispatcher: Yeah. Are you armed, sir? Do you have a weapon with you?
Thornton: Oh yeah, I'm armed.
Dispatcher: How many guns do you have with you?
Thornton: I got one now, there's one out, one out in the uh, the uh, factory there.
Dispatcher: Yup. OK, sir.
Thornton: I'm not gonna kill nobody else, though.
Thornton: These cops are gonna kill me.
Dispatcher: No they're not. We're just gonna have to get you to relax
Thornton: I'm relaxed, just calm down.
Dispatcher: … to have you, you know, turn yourself over.
Thornton: We're just talking, you're gonna play something on the news, you know I'm gonna be popular, right [inaudible] the right thing. SWAT team just rolled by in army gear. You don't know where I'm at, but, I don't know, maybe you can trace it from this phone call. But, yeah, these people here are crazy, they treat me bad from the start here, racist company. They treat me bad, I'm the only black driver they got here. They treat me bad over here, they treat me bad all the time.
Thornton: You don't need to calm me down, I'm already calmed down. I'm not gonna kill nobody else — I just want to tell my story so that you can play it back.
Dispatcher: Yeah, just, you know, where are you located, are you up in the offices?
Thornton: Where they fired me, everything be all right. … Manchester itself is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yeah, we wouldn't want to do it like that, Omar. You know, it's already been a bad enough scene here this morning, we want you to relax.
Thornton: I'm relaxed though, I'm done.
Since we're doing that, let's show the "good" part, where he pretty much tells the dispatcher that he's about to kill himself, rather than surrender, because he figures that "surrender" means "let the police kill me":
Dispatcher: How much ammunition you have with you?
Thornton: I got uh, I shot, uh oh .
Dispatcher: What was that?
Thornton: It's all right. I guess it's got me … I have to take care of business. Tell my people I love them, and I gotta go now.
I wonder what was going on in his mind that he thought to call 911.
Well with all due respect that sounds all nice and all, and I appreciate how you are trying to paint people into their respective boxes but I'm sorry in this case I think you are wrong and your post is full of assumptions.
I suggest you listen to the audio and see if it's a guy gone nuts. Hardly, it was like he was just talking to anyone on any old regular day. This was a cold hearted killer who premeditated the events and had no remorse. HE TOLD US WHY HE DID IT several times. No assumptions about paranoia or other pseudo motives needed.
No one is thumping chests and I will not "sit down and be quiet" as you suggest. No way. These issues need to come out in the open, they need to be talked about and we as a society need to address them.
Dawn, I respect your decision but I'm sorry I am going to post some of his words for the world to see. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
Thornton: I'm in the building. Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yup, I understand that
Thornton: They treat me bad over here, and they treat all the other black employees bad over here too, so I just take it into my own hands and I handled the problem — I wish I coulda got more of the people.
Dispatcher: Yeah. Are you armed, sir? Do you have a weapon with you?
Thornton: Oh yeah, I'm armed.
Dispatcher: How many guns do you have with you?
Thornton: I got one now, there's one out, one out in the uh, the uh, factory there.
Dispatcher: Yup. OK, sir.
Thornton: I'm not gonna kill nobody else, though.
Thornton: These cops are gonna kill me.
Dispatcher: No they're not. We're just gonna have to get you to relax
Thornton: I'm relaxed, just calm down.
Dispatcher: … to have you, you know, turn yourself over.
Thornton: We're just talking, you're gonna play something on the news, you know I'm gonna be popular, right [inaudible] the right thing. SWAT team just rolled by in army gear. You don't know where I'm at, but, I don't know, maybe you can trace it from this phone call. But, yeah, these people here are crazy, they treat me bad from the start here, racist company. They treat me bad, I'm the only black driver they got here. They treat me bad over here, they treat me bad all the time.
Thornton: You don't need to calm me down, I'm already calmed down. I'm not gonna kill nobody else — I just want to tell my story so that you can play it back.
Dispatcher: Yeah, just, you know, where are you located, are you up in the offices?
Thornton: Where they fired me, everything be all right. … Manchester itself is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yeah, we wouldn't want to do it like that, Omar. You know, it's already been a bad enough scene here this morning, we want you to relax.
Thornton: I'm relaxed though, I'm done.
While I don't disagree with what I think you're trying to say, I'm not sure how it completely refutes what goldenband said (which I have to say is exactly what I was trying to say but in a better way as like goldenband if I'm reading that post I do not blame real or perceived "racism" at all, just trying to explain how it factored into a mind that was already capable of such a horrific act).
Just because he could sound so cool and collected on the phone does not mean there was nothing "mental" about him. To be able to simply do what he did, and ESPECIALLY so cool and calmly speaks volumes about his mental state.
In turn, I certainly don't think that means if he didn't kill himself that he should simply go to a mental institution and be declared "not guilty by insanity" either. In fact, while I'm concerned about the death penalty where there is some shadow of doubt, there obviously wasn't any here and it would be what he would've deserved if he didn't give the "death penalty" to himself.
I suggest you listen to the audio and see if it's a guy gone nuts. Hardly, it was like he was just talking to anyone on any old regular day. This was a cold hearted killer who premeditated the events and had no remorse. HE TOLD US WHY HE DID IT several times. No assumptions about paranoia or other pseudo motives needed.
I have listened to the audio, actually, and it confirmed my impression. You seem to think that "going nuts" involves frothing at the mouth and raving. I can assure you that that's not the case; there are many people who are completely insane, and calm as can be. That doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. I suspect you don't want to label him as crazy because you think it excuses his actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello
No one is thumping chests and I will not "sit down and be quiet" as you suggest. No way. These issues need to come out in the open, they need to be talked about and we as a society need to address them.
I appreciate your sincerity but with all due respect, I would seriously ask yourself whether you're really working for the benefit of society, or just enjoying the feeling of putting your two cents in. Many people think they're doing the first thing, but it's really the second.
I would also question whether any constructive conversation that involves race can be had on City-Data, or on the Internet at all. It usually seems to boil down to one side crying "Racism!", the other side crying "No such thing anymore!", and a few posters making carefully calculated innuendos just subtle enough to keep them from getting banned.
Since we're doing that, let's show the "good" part, where he pretty much tells the dispatcher that he's about to kill himself, rather than surrender, because he figures that "surrender" means "let the police kill me":
Dispatcher: How much ammunition you have with you?
Thornton: I got uh, I shot, uh oh .
Dispatcher: What was that?
Thornton: It's all right. I guess it's got me … I have to take care of business. Tell my people I love them, and I gotta go now.
I wonder what was going on in his mind that he thought to call 911.
I really think this guy thought he was some kind of mercenary or freedom fighter/martyr type who was out to "get payback" based on his words and actions. That's why he called, so he could say why he did it.
I have no evidence of anything but I'm curious to see if any connections to any militant "racial liberation" groups show up.
While I don't disagree with what I think you're trying to say, I'm not sure how it completely refutes what goldenband said (which I have to say is exactly what I was trying to say but in a better way as like goldenband if I'm reading that post I do not blame real or perceived "racism" at all, just trying to explain how it factored into a mind that was already capable of such a horrific act).
Just because he could sound so cool and collected on the phone does not mean there was nothing "mental" about him. To be able to simply do what he did, and ESPECIALLY so cool and calmly speaks volumes about his mental state.
In turn, I certainly don't think that means if he didn't kill himself that he should simply go to a mental institution and be declared "not guilty by insanity" either. In fact, while I'm concerned about the death penalty where there is some shadow of doubt, there obviously wasn't any here and it would be what he would've deserved if he didn't give the "death penalty" to himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenband
I have listened to the audio, actually, and it confirmed my impression. You seem to think that "going nuts" involves frothing at the mouth and raving. I can assure you that that's not the case; there are many people who are completely insane, and calm as can be. That doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. I suspect you don't want to label him as crazy because you think it excuses his actions.
I appreciate your sincerity but with all due respect, I would seriously ask yourself whether you're really working for the benefit of society, or just enjoying the feeling of putting your two cents in. Many people think they're doing the first thing, but it's really the second.
I would also question whether any constructive conversation that involves race can be had on City-Data, or on the Internet at all. It usually seems to boil down to one side crying "Racism!", the other side crying "No such thing anymore!", and a few posters making carefully calculated innuendos just subtle enough to keep them from getting banned.
I understand where you guys are coming from and in another case I might agree. But I don't think he was insane any more than the terrorists who flew the planes into building were. They were "calm cool and calculated". They did it for a cause, for a purpose of something they believed. Same here.
So I disagree that he was insane. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and why.
I also do think folks can have a rational discussion online. It's a social medium. Unless you folks are now going to tell me that you have never learned anything or had opinion swayed from the "interweb".
Well with all due respect that sounds all nice and all, and I appreciate how you are trying to paint people into their respective boxes but I'm sorry in this case I think you are wrong and your post is full of assumptions.
I suggest you listen to the audio and see if it's a guy gone nuts. Hardly, it was like he was just talking to anyone on any old regular day. This was a cold hearted killer who premeditated the events and had no remorse. HE TOLD US WHY HE DID IT several times. No assumptions about paranoia or other pseudo motives needed.
No one is thumping chests and I will not "sit down and be quiet" as you suggest. No way. These issues need to come out in the open, they need to be talked about and we as a society need to address them.
Dawn, I respect your decision but I'm sorry I am going to post some of his words for the world to see. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
Thornton: I'm in the building. Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yup, I understand that
Thornton: They treat me bad over here, and they treat all the other black employees bad over here too, so I just take it into my own hands and I handled the problem — I wish I coulda got more of the people.
Dispatcher: Yeah. Are you armed, sir? Do you have a weapon with you?
Thornton: Oh yeah, I'm armed.
Dispatcher: How many guns do you have with you?
Thornton: I got one now, there's one out, one out in the uh, the uh, factory there.
Dispatcher: Yup. OK, sir.
Thornton: I'm not gonna kill nobody else, though.
Thornton: These cops are gonna kill me.
Dispatcher: No they're not. We're just gonna have to get you to relax
Thornton: I'm relaxed, just calm down.
Dispatcher: … to have you, you know, turn yourself over.
Thornton: We're just talking, you're gonna play something on the news, you know I'm gonna be popular, right [inaudible] the right thing. SWAT team just rolled by in army gear. You don't know where I'm at, but, I don't know, maybe you can trace it from this phone call. But, yeah, these people here are crazy, they treat me bad from the start here, racist company. They treat me bad, I'm the only black driver they got here. They treat me bad over here, they treat me bad all the time.
Thornton: You don't need to calm me down, I'm already calmed down. I'm not gonna kill nobody else — I just want to tell my story so that you can play it back.
Dispatcher: Yeah, just, you know, where are you located, are you up in the offices?
Thornton: Where they fired me, everything be all right. … Manchester itself is a racist place.
Dispatcher: Yeah, we wouldn't want to do it like that, Omar. You know, it's already been a bad enough scene here this morning, we want you to relax.
Thornton: I'm relaxed though, I'm done.
i think that there is a strong evidence of mental illness here...he was obviously paranoid...and as expressed before the alledged racism at the workplace did not help...notice not one black employee
is denying that racism occured....hmmm
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
mental illness anyone?
