[goldenband]

Originally Posted by JViello

I don't think he was insane any more than the terrorists who flew the planes into building were. They were "calm cool and calculated". They did it for a cause, for a purpose of something they believed. Same here.

This is exactly what I meant when I talked about "preexisting beliefs". I think you're inclined to think of his actions as part of a larger cause because you have a clear interest in this particular issue (i.e. black militancy), and would like to connect this to that. Yet there's no real evidence that this is the case, and it's yet another example of trying to wrap this up in a neat package, rather than waiting for the evidence to come in.

BTW to cite but one example Charles Whitman was also "calm, cool and calculated", and he didn't have a cause. Was he insane? Not sure, but the guy had a huge brain tumor that may well have been a factor.

Originally Posted by JViello

I also do think folks can have a rational discussion online. It's a social medium.

Yes, but it's also a medium in which there's very little social cost to saying some incredibly offensive things, and in which the usual social forces that help to call that to account aren't present. I'm sure if I knew some of the posters here in real life we'd get on fine, but on the Internet, so many of us end up being the personification of our worst and most cartoonish qualities.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by goldenband

This is exactly what I meant when I talked about "preexisting beliefs". I think you're inclined to think of his actions as part of a larger cause because you have a clear interest in this particular issue (i.e. black militancy), and would like to connect this to that.

Well, you'd be wrong in that assumption. I'm a grown man, with a healthy mind. I know the difference between projection and determination.

I'm simply saying it like the evidence is showing it. loooong before this was a racial issue (Go back a few pages) I was on the phone with FBAM and told him flat out...this one stinks of something else. This guy wasn't just a disgruntled worker. Hell, I didn't even know he was black at the time. (I didn't post anything, because we didn't have any facts. )

I also stated in so many words, that I'm waiting for more facts to come out and I am *curious* to see if there are any other connections.

But, I do appreciate you trying to paint me into a corner with labels and assumptions...problem is we are in a round room.

Originally Posted by goldenband

Yet there's no real evidence that this is the case, and it's yet another example of trying to wrap this up in a neat package, rather than waiting for the evidence to come in.

Riiight, cause us "simple folk" can possibly wrap our minds around things more intellectual and want to put it in a neat package so we can understand it. Just stop please.

Your evidence is in his own words, in the words of "relatives" and his actions. That really is simple to see.

I too am waiting for more evidence to "come in" out of curiousity.

[goldenband]

I'm not interested in further discussing this with you. Be well.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by goldenband

I'm not interested in further discussing this with you. Be well.

Ditto.

[Lowerdeck]

After I read this topic, and seeing reports on this in the Courant (forget the TV news)... where exactly is the racism part of this coming from?

The first two killed were due to the firing, the next two happened to be in the vicinity of the offices (chasing/killing witnesses), and the rest were victims for helping others trying to escape. Who was he targeting out in the warehouse for being racist? So far I've seen nothing which would fit that bill, a bunch of randomness besides the first two.

[DawnMTL]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

After I read this topic, and seeing reports on this in the Courant (forget the TV news)... where exactly is the racism part of this coming from?

The first two killed were due to the firing, the next two happened to be in the vicinity of the offices (chasing/killing witnesses), and the rest were victims for helping others trying to escape. Who was he targeting out in the warehouse for being racist? So far I've seen nothing which would fit that bill, a bunch of randomness besides the first two.

I'm not saying it was or wasn't racially motivated but I have heard this:

1. He thought he was mistreated because he was black. He said that he was the only black person working there. (I don't think that last statement is true.)

2. If he shot people based on race, I don't know, but I heard that he walked right past many others -- including a woman in a wheelchair -- in order to "chase down" certain others.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

After I read this topic, and seeing reports on this in the Courant (forget the TV news)... where exactly is the racism part of this coming from?

The first two killed were due to the firing, the next two happened to be in the vicinity of the offices (chasing/killing witnesses), and the rest were victims for helping others trying to escape. Who was he targeting out in the warehouse for being racist? So far I've seen nothing which would fit that bill, a bunch of randomness besides the first two.

Thornton: ...Uh, you probably want to know the reason why I shot this place up. This place here is a racist place.

Dispatcher: Yup, I understand that

Thornton: They treat me bad over here, and they treat all the other black employees bad over here too, so I just take it into my own hands and I handled the problem — I wish I coulda got more of the people.

Thornton: ...But, yeah, these people here are crazy, they treat me bad from the start here, racist company. They treat me bad, I'm the only black driver they got here. They treat me bad over here, they treat me bad all the time.

Thornton: Where they fired me, everything be all right. … Manchester itself is a racist place.

I think it was about race for Omar.

Statement today from Ross Hollander.

Finally, let me address some of the issues that have been raised as a result of this incident that I know have your interest. As was said at the outset, this is a matter of a criminal investigation and the authorities have been clear that we cannot comment on the details of this incident. However, it is important that you know the following: As an employee of Hartford Distributors, Omar Thornton was embraced as a member of our team and judged purely on the merits of his work performance. Based on credible, third-party information, we conducted a fair and thorough investigation which provided conclusive evidence that Omar Thornton was systematically stealing from the Company and selling to third-parties. It was this conduct which lead to the disciplinary proceeding on Tuesday morning. There was no indication in Omar Thornton’s background or 2-year history at HDIthat he posed a safety threat to himself, his co-workers or the community. As for the claims that Omar Thornton’s actions were a result of racial insensitivity, I can state unequivocally that no such claim has ever been brought to the attention of this Company. No such claim has been pursued under Hartford Distributors’ internal anti-harassment policy – no such claim has ever been filed against the Company through the collective bargaining grievance procedure – no such claim has ever been filed with either federal or state anti-discrimination agencies. Nonetheless, these ugly allegations have been raised and the Company will cooperate with any investigation initiated by any federal or state agency.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...3966625786.txt

[Lowerdeck]

I know what he and his girlfriend said. But then his actions seemed to go against what he said. Instead of going after the racists which tormented him, he seemed to go nuts on his bosses for firing him - then on witnesses and those trying to stop him. It seems after the original couple of killings, the event went far astray from the hitlist to just convenience.

That was the point I was getting at.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by Lowerdeck

I know what he and his girlfriend said. But then his actions seemed to go against what he said. Instead of going after the racists which tormented him, he seemed to go nuts on his bosses for firing him - then on witnesses and those trying to stop him. It seems after the original couple of killings, the event went far astray from the hitlist to just convenience.

That was the point I was getting at.

Exactly. Plus he said he wishes he killed more people.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by JViello

I also do think folks can have a rational discussion online. It's a social medium. Unless you folks are now going to tell me that you have never learned anything or had opinion swayed from the "interweb".

If you want to see "irrational discussions" that get "out of hand", go to the Politics, Great Debates or Work/Unemployment forums, this is nuttin', believe me....