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Point being, sane people don't calmly walk into their place of employment, kill nine co-workers, and then shoot themselves.
Perhaps the he was already a bit off, and feeling pressure from all kinds of things, and the idea of racial injustice escalated in his mind and tipped him over the edge. It doesn't mean that racism really actually had anything to do with it. It doesn't mean it didn't. What it means, is that -he believed- that it did, and he was imbalanced enough in the first place that this became a driving force and motivation for his behavior.
My heart goes out not only to the families of the ones he killed, but to his own family. The whole thing is heartbreaking, from one end of the story to the other.
I know what he and his girlfriend said. But then his actions seemed to go against what he said. Instead of going after the racists which tormented him, he seemed to go nuts on his bosses for firing him - then on witnesses and those trying to stop him. It seems after the original couple of killings, the event went far astray from the hitlist to just convenience.
That was the point I was getting at.
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Originally Posted by kidyankee764
Exactly. Plus he said he wishes he killed more people.
Lowerdeck, I get your point. What I would introduce to the conversation is the fact that his own words seem to use blanket statements...in other words, I'd be apt to believe he thought they were all racists. Even the entire town of Manchester. So it really didn't matter which one of the crackers he killed...in fact he said he wished he could have killed more.
That unfortunately is a mindset for some in the world. (Wether it was his or not we don't know.) For instance for people like Louis Farrakhan ALL whites are evil...the white devil. Same for the Black Panthers. Just like with radical Islam ALL of the West is evil. They don't pick and choose which ones are and which ones are not. That's why I laugh when some liberals think so long as they are "nice" and "negotiate" with terrorists they will respond in kind. No they won't dummy, they just view YOU as a "weak devil" and would off you the same in two seconds flat.
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Originally Posted by 7 Wishes
If you want to see "irrational discussions" that get "out of hand", go to the Politics, Great Debates or Work/Unemployment forums, this is nuttin', believe me....
I agree, I've spent some time in their and walked away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
Point being, sane people don't calmly walk into their place of employment, kill nine co-workers, and then shoot themselves.
I disagree. Again, using the terrorists as an example. They were not insane, they were militant operatives, yet acheived the same thing.
IMO Omar Thorton's speech and use of terminology shows a person with clear intent and mission. Once he accomplished his mission in his own words he was "done" and then needed to "take care of business".
I've watched a surveillance video (Not sure of the location) where a suspected terrorist was escorted into a room for questioning. They left him to do whatever for a minute and the guy took a sip of water, calmly put the cup back down, reached into his pants, pulled out a pistol and just put it to his temple and "blam". No emotion, no nerves, nothing. Just another militant taking one for the team so to speak.
I've watched a surveillance video (Not sure of the location) where a suspected terrorist was escorted into a room for questioning. They left him to do whatever for a minute and the guy took a sip of water, calmly put the cup back down, reached into his pants, pulled out a pistol and just put it to his temple and "blam". No emotion, no nerves, nothing. Just another militant taking one for the team so to speak.
The video you're referring to depicts a Guatemalan immigrant named Ricardo Alfonso Cerna, who was suspected (I assume correctly) of shooting a policeman in the stomach at a routine traffic stop. I can find zero evidence that he was suspected of terrorism or Islamic militancy; I can't even find a site that claims that. The message board post here quotes a news report from the time (with a link, now dead) which says that the motive for the shooting was "unknown".
It boggles my mind that you would post something like that without bothering to check your facts -- something I believe you have a moral obligation to do. Again, this is what I mean about "preexisting agendas": if you hear what you want to hear, you believe it -- and worse yet, you repeat it without actually checking to see if it's true. It would be difficult to exaggerate how furious that attitude makes me, or how destructive I believe it is to the well-being of our country.
The video you're referring to depicts a Guatemalan immigrant named Ricardo Alfonso Cerna, who was suspected (I assume correctly) of shooting a policeman in the stomach at a routine traffic stop. I can find zero evidence that he was suspected of terrorism or Islamic militancy; I can't even find a site that claims that. The message board post here quotes a news report from the time (with a link, now dead) which says that the motive for the shooting was "unknown".
It boggles my mind that you would post something like that without bothering to check your facts -- something I believe you have a moral obligation to do. Again, this is what I mean about "preexisting agendas": if you hear what you want to hear, you believe it -- and worse yet, you repeat it without actually checking to see if it's true. It would be difficult to exaggerate how furious that attitude makes me, or how destructive I believe it is to the well-being of our country.
That's not the one I was referring too, so calm down. Although, that's a pretty good example of my point as well.
On the contrary, I think it demonstrates the opposite. There's no evidence that RAC was a militant or fanatic of any sort, and had no known connection to any "cause". Yet he killed himself, probably because he knew (or believed) the game was up for him, and did so in an apparently calm and dispassionate manner.
Also, I'd like to say that I believe you were referring to a different story -- but since the events in the Cerna video match what you describe exactly, down to the drink of water and the shot to the temple, I'm afraid I have to call B.S.
On the contrary, I think it demonstrates the opposite. There's no evidence that RAC was a militant or fanatic of any sort, and had no known connection to any "cause". Yet he killed himself, probably because he knew (or believed) the game was up for him, and did so in an apparently calm and dispassionate manner.
Also, I'd like to say that I believe you were referring to a different story -- but since the events in the Cerna video match what you describe exactly, down to the drink of water and the shot to the temple, I'm afraid I have to call B.S.
FYI the video I am referring to was sent to me via email from a family member serving in the Middle East over 5 years ago, it wasn't that person, and has been long deleted. Temple, side of the head, whatever. So take your B.S. and do what you wish.
I want to point out a few things. I'd like to say I don't like to use the word racism either. I gotta share with u a story and a point that I wanna make.
First, I'm black. I feel like its easy for someone u don't know to paint the wrong picture when u go around stating ur race. So I don't say it in the online forums. Having said that, when I refer to my youth I may make a reference to Puerto Rican culture because I grew up with Puerto Ricans. Literally. They cut my hair, they watched me after school when I was young, etc.
Having said that, I want to share with u a story. One time, I was upstairs studying in the library at UCONN and a girl walked into the area that I was studying and said "someone stole my calculator". Another girl said, "maybe u should ask that black kidd if he has it". I was floored. I'll never forget how embarrassed I felt. I heard her, but I didn't look at her because I know if I showed any emotion, I would look like a thief.
I could have easily have said that the girl was racist but I didn't. Instead, I can say she was "racially ignorant". That girl probably didn't grow up with many minorities in her high school, so she probably thought that it was acceptable to talk like that. I think about that story alot but I got over it a while ago.
Honestly, I don't condone what Mr. Thornton did but I have to admit that there maybe other black men in this country that feel like they have their back against the wall (like I did that day in the library). Maybe the men that he worked with meant no harm in the racial jokes they may have made but maybe Thornton didn't take it that way. There was this one teacher in my high school that used to make jokes about how latino students could never get to class on time. They laughed, but I always wondered if they got offended by it deep down. U kno, something u try to change about urself but more times than not people include u into the racial stereotype. Trust me, there have been times at school where I have wanted to slap the sh*t out of some kids at school for some of the racial jokes they said and believe me if we were back on the street in the dirty water I prolly would have done it. Its a snap related to ego that u learn in the streets that most people get rid of and some don't. I lost the ego thing when I realized I went to school with almost all white folks. But the situation may change if ur black, u appear like a thug (or at least what the media cast thugs to look like), and u don't have the education or the personal support to realize that its nothing but words. After all, wtnh.com interviewed the girlfriend and the ex-girlfriend and they seem to portray a quiet man who wouldn't complain about something like that in public. Maybe he still had it deep down inside...
I want to point out a few things. I'd like to say I don't like to use the word racism either. I gotta share with u a story and a point that I wanna make.
First, I'm black. I feel like its easy for someone u don't know to paint the wrong picture when u go around stating ur race. So I don't say it in the online forums. Having said that, when I refer to my youth I may make a reference to Puerto Rican culture because I grew up with Puerto Ricans. Literally. They cut my hair, they watched me after school when I was young, etc.
Having said that, I want to share with u a story. One time, I was upstairs studying in the library at UCONN and a girl walked into the area that I was studying and said "someone stole my calculator". Another girl said, "maybe u should ask that black kidd if he has it". I was floored. I'll never forget how embarrassed I felt. I heard her, but I didn't look at her because I know if I showed any emotion, I would look like a thief.
I could have easily have said that the girl was racist but I didn't. Instead, I can say she was "racially ignorant". That girl probably didn't grow up with many minorities in her high school, so she probably thought that it was acceptable to talk like that. I think about that story alot but I got over it a while ago.
Honestly, I don't condone what Mr. Thornton did but I have to admit that there maybe other black men in this country that feel like they have their back against the wall (like I did that day in the library). Maybe the men that he worked with meant no harm in the racial jokes they may have made but maybe Thornton didn't take it that way. There was this one teacher in my high school that used to make jokes about how latino students could never get to class on time. They laughed, but I always wondered if they got offended by it deep down. U kno, something u try to change about urself but more times than not people include u into the racial stereotype. Trust me, there have been times at school where I have wanted to slap the sh*t out of some kids at school for some of the racial jokes they said and believe me if we were back on the street in the dirty water I prolly would have done it. Its a snap related to ego that u learn in the streets that most people get rid of and some don't. I lost the ego thing when I realized I went to school with almost all white folks. But the situation may change if ur black, u appear like a thug (or at least what the media cast thugs to look like), and u don't have the education or the personal support to realize that its nothing but words. After all, wtnh.com interviewed the girlfriend and the ex-girlfriend and they seem to portray a quiet man who wouldn't complain about something like that in public. Maybe he still had it deep down inside...
If that's the kind of stuff you have had to and still do deal with I think you are being way too sensitive. In my high school there were three main hallways and the center hallway was the "black" hallway and anyone who wasn't black who walked down there either got verbally assaulted "cracker" "honky" etc., spit on, attacked or most likely a lovely combination. My parents always taught me to never let anyone bully you and I didn't. If that was the shortest route to my next class I took it. sure maybe I should have avoided confrontation by going down another hall but... Long story short I was put up for expulsion a number of times because of fighting (In FL it was automatic when you fought) I won at every hearing because teachers and fellow students (black and white) testified that they were bullying. I did not flip out and bring a gun and start shooting people. Nor did I conclude that all black people are racist just some. same with white people and every other ethnicity. It is an individual trait. not as a societal trait.
My wife works in an overwhelmingly male dominated industry in which she happens to be the boss. She has to deal with rude customers, employees, and peers that do not realize she got where she is by hard work not because she is a female filling a quota. she doesn't think all men are jerks just some in particular. she doesn't flip out and start shooting people.
People of all walks of life face some sort of opposition at some point and it's how you deal with that that makes you who you are. If you are one to throw around the race card, you are probably a racist. If anyone, Omar Thornton seems to have had the biggest issue with race. He killed a bunch of white people and accused the entire town of being racist. Okay sorry about the rant I will stop here.
I wasn't going to post after reading this but then again I realize I'm a hater of the human mind not of the city.... I just dont get it....What is triggering the mind to do such a thing...I will never understand....Cant they just kill themselves? I mean I hate humans but I would never hurt innocent people....I hate humans as a race not as individuals....something went wrong along the way and there's just too many people now it's irreversable unless mother nature can continue her course.
What I'd like to know is...1. Did this person have kids. 2. Where are his parents?
what you have to ask yourself is: what happened on both ends? The Hollander family keep saying that there were never any racist statements or complaints about racism, but how do I know that they didn't just cover it up because they wanted to get rid of him regardless. They had already been snoopin' on him because of suspicions about beer theft. The Union said there were no complaints either, but then again, how do I know that they didn't just do away with the documentation of such things, I don't think they're regulated by Government(as they shouldn't) so it was his word against theirs. As for him shooting up the people, well he had his reasons, and I think he should've either quit or resigned or resolve his issues with a lawyer and sue the company for negligence. I don't think that he should have shot anybody at all, but he had to have had some reason for doing it. You just don't go about shooting people if you get fired. We can call it a Hate crime but all it was a disgruntled employee. The guy who shot the administrators dead in the Lotter offices in Newington wasn't committing a class crime or anything, he was, I think mad that he was being fired, if I'm not corrected.
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