[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by MPC2000

what you have to ask yourself is: what happened on both ends?

Thornton had plenty of options. We don't have to ask ourselves what happened on "both ends".

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by DipDog3

911 call on Conn. shooting shows racial disparity - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_us/us_beer_distributor_shootings - broken link)

When this story first came out it was about a guy who was fired for stealing and went on a rampage killing his coworkers, but now that the murderer is black and all the victims are white, the story is about the "racist white people"?

Now all the victim's families are having to defend themselves against being racist.

What is wrong with this picture????

What you do at work and what you do at home are totally different. Alot of people are closeted racists. I wouldn't put it past some of them to be that way and still functioning civilian. I've hung out with people, who when you get some drinks in 'em, the stereotypes start coming. I don't mind it because it's not a problem to me, but some are sensitive to that.

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by think first

The only way to settle this racist argument is with a beer summit.

um, you can't do that because then the racist in all of us will come out....

[JViello]

Originally Posted by MPC2000

what you have to ask yourself is: what happened on both ends? The Hollander family keep saying that there were never any racist statements or complaints about racism, but how do I know that they didn't just cover it up because they wanted to get rid of him regardless. They had already been snoopin' on him because of suspicions about beer theft. The Union said there were no complaints either, but then again, how do I know that they didn't just do away with the documentation of such things,

Easy, all one has to do is look at the evidence and their life records.

The Hollander family has a stellar reputation, Thornton does not.

The Hollanders are being accused of racism, by one person - the guy they have on record stealing from them, and the guy who shot 8 people in cold blood.

I can tell you've never been part of a union...they are above and beyond for the worker and everything has an investigation and documentation and record keeping to the point of being almost out of control.

To put the Hollander family, the victoms and the unions officials on an equal plane as Thornton and say it's their word against his is not only insane, it's sick.

To also go so far as to accuse the victoms (One was the union leader) and the family of doing a coverup with no evidence or reason to believe so except the words of a cold blooded killer and thief is madness.

[trishguard]

Originally Posted by MPC2000

what you have to ask yourself is: what happened on both ends? The Hollander family keep saying that there were never any racist statements or complaints about racism, but how do I know that they didn't just cover it up because they wanted to get rid of him regardless. They had already been snoopin' on him because of suspicions about beer theft. The Union said there were no complaints either, but then again, how do I know that they didn't just do away with the documentation of such things, I don't think they're regulated by Government(as they shouldn't) so it was his word against theirs. As for him shooting up the people, well he had his reasons, and I think he should've either quit or resigned or resolve his issues with a lawyer and sue the company for negligence. I don't think that he should have shot anybody at all, but he had to have had some reason for doing it. You just don't go about shooting people if you get fired. We can call it a Hate crime but all it was a disgruntled employee. The guy who shot the administrators dead in the Lotter offices in Newington wasn't committing a class crime or anything, he was, I think mad that he was being fired, if I'm not corrected.

Having a reason or excuse is not justification. If they called him names, then he could have called them some names. If they drew mean pictures, he could have drawn some too. I don't care what his excuses were, he made the wrong choice in the end that has hurt many people, including his own family.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by brasscitybluenwhite

I could have easily have said that the girl was racist but I didn't. Instead, I can say she was "racially ignorant". That girl probably didn't grow up with many minorities in her high school, so she probably thought that it was acceptable to talk like that. I think about that story alot but I got over it a while ago.

Honestly, I don't condone what Mr. Thornton did but I have to admit that there maybe other black men in this country that feel like they have their back against the wall (like I did that day in the library). Maybe the men that he worked with meant no harm in the racial jokes they may have made but maybe Thornton didn't take it that way. There was this one teacher in my high school that used to make jokes about how latino students could never get to class on time.

After all, wtnh.com interviewed the girlfriend and the ex-girlfriend and they seem to portray a quiet man who wouldn't complain about something like that in public. Maybe he still had it deep down inside...

What you say in the first paragraph I quote above was probably what went on to some extent with Thornton's co-workers and any comments/jokes they may have made. But even if I concede what you say in the last paragraph above and assume he was a quiet man with a building paranoia leading to a feeling of having an "ax to grind" I'm still surprised Thornton didn't complain to his union or the Hollanders about it before getting that way. I mean he was hired by the Hollanders and worked there 2 years, so I don't believe management/ownership was racist or even "ignorant".

I put your teacher example here to say why I think he could've/should've complained to the union about the jokes. I was kind of shocked to hear your story about the teacher with the Latino joke, not because I think it would never happen, (and if so, I think it's more your "ignorant" description than that he/she was some closet neo-Nazi/KKK person), but because for all my rants in other forums how teachers are so over-protected by their unions, etc. once they get tenure, something like that is one of the few things that can break the protection of tenure and get a teacher disciplined if not outright fired (the other things being something like sexual harassment/molestation, etc.). Similarly, I think the union or the Hollanders would've taken care of Thornton's problems with his coworkers before it went any further.

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

And I'll add a 'victim, my a**' to the mix...you just listed the victims, and my heart broke a little more each time I read about the lives the people won't be going back to...

Omar Thornton was a cowardly, murdering fool, who chose to demonstrate his inability to deal with the consequences of his actions by packing a gun and killing innocent people, rather than being a man and trying to deal with adversity---and then trying to couch his actions in some racial-harassment BS...kinda hard to 'pull the race card' when you're dead

I agree wholeheartedly.......he made an arse of himself by doing such a thing

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by trishguard

Having a reason or excuse is not justification. If they called him names, then he could have called them some names. If they drew mean pictures, he could have drawn some too. I don't care what his excuses were, he made the wrong choice in the end that has hurt many people, including his own family.

you know what, you're right, but he who's to say that he could when he was overpowered, Again, we don't know what happened between both of parties. I don't think your suggestion is wrong as well. I do agree that he could have retaliated in the same immature manner, but who's to say where his mind was at, and how much he DID endure while being subjected to such bullying. Bullies get dealt with by the small guy beating the bully to a bloddy pulp so he doesn't bully the rest of the people, eliminating the problem...maybe that's what Omar thought in his feeble mind when it came to this dilemma

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by JViello

Easy, all one has to do is look at the evidence and their life records.

The Hollander family has a stellar reputation, Thornton does not.

The Hollanders are being accused of racism, by one person - the guy they have on record stealing from them, and the guy who shot 8 people in cold blood.

I can tell you've never been part of a union...they are above and beyond for the worker and everything has an investigation and documentation and record keeping to the point of being almost out of control.

To put the Hollander family, the victoms and the unions officials on an equal plane as Thornton and say it's their word against his is not only insane, it's sick.

To also go so far as to accuse the victoms (One was the union leader) and the family of doing a coverup with no evidence or reason to believe so except the words of a cold blooded killer and thief is madness.

of course I would never be a Union worker, they are vampires to societal efforts to make progress happen. instead all they do is keep the workers where they're at with no upward mobility. nothing positive comes out of a union worker..and I can say that because I work for my damn money and I don't need anybody to defend my damn actions or my progress and if pressed by my administrators, I will go head to head with them with my accolades. if they feel that I am obsolete, if I haven't left already(as the union workers should do, but do NOT) then they can let me go. I've made my peace with them, I will find another job because I can hustle any interview into taking me. my problem is that who ever the hell came up with firing Thornton in that manner was a Union worker because they should have just fired him on the spot, no need for union workers to get involved(God how many damn times do union worker have to keep intervening with progress)...all of that could have been prevented had the union not gotten involved once they found out he was stealing. just oust him already.

Oh, and the reason for these upstanding citizens who sell BEER is going on is because I have to bet not too many black workers have worked there if so they'd come out of the woodwork claiming the same thing as Thornton..they've been around since 67....you mean to tell me that black people came around and they still were not qualified to work at such an upstanding family's establishment? hmmmm..check your facts buddy....you don't have to be a racist to not want a certain kind of people to manage/work at your company(class/race/genger)...there are preferences as well that go on in a private company(the ones who are not regulated on ethical standards), and that's on you, but don't go around claiming nothing went on just because ONE black man said it. is there any evidence that other blacks have worked there, or was it so damn hard to get in there. It's driving trucks, how dumb can blacks be right?...hmmmm...I wonder, if they did an audit, how did they fill that quota throughout all those years after AA came into play

[MPC2000]

Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident

Thornton had plenty of options. We don't have to ask ourselves what happened on "both ends".

no, we have to ask ourselves what happened on both ends, there are plenty of options on both ends....were his complaints being even looked at...how far did they want to cover this investigation for if they've made millions off of drunks and drunkards...they're just guilty as thornton. for all I know they were cuttion corners, and thornton didn't bring a lawsuit to their asses so I was wondering what might have been throughout the transaction. like I said Unions do not work, and have never worked for the greater good except when child labor was around, and the work hours were horrendious, but now most companies/corporations give you option on working extra hours so no need for them....the should have never gotten involved if he was stealing ..period...the fact that he had a gun, means that he was registered to carry a gun in his person...and he was a driver so he could have been worried about his"person" while on the job...you go into certain neighborhoods, and you can get robbed for your beer, so it's not premeditated. I don't condone it, but he probably DID react to their "disciplinary action"