[jjinla]

I'm not disagreeing that there is waste, but it's really the voters that should be singling out waste like that and voting accordingly as a result.

And I don't know who was driving a $700 Mercedes, but my father in law was rewarded as city manager with the opportunity to drive something like a 5 year old Ford Focus when he was on official city business. Any other time, he drove his own car. If the voters put up with it, nothing will change, you're right.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by jjinla

I'm not disagreeing that there is waste, but it's really the voters that should be singling out waste like that and voting accordingly as a result.

That's easier said than done. The voters in New Haven are overwhelmingly Democratic and support being supported, and they are far from well-educated. Most of the officers laid off do not live in New Haven therefore do not have a say.

Originally Posted by jjinla

And I don't know who was driving a $700 Mercedes, but my father in law was rewarded as city manager with the opportunity to drive something like a 5 year old Ford Focus when he was on official city business. Any other time, he drove his own car. If the voters put up with it, nothing will change, you're right.

It was a hypothetical. If a friend approached you after just financing a Mercedes, and asked to borrow money because they're having financial troubles, chances are you'd tell them to buzz off. That's what is happening here - the city is wasting a ton of money on ridiculous departments, programs and dead weight jobs that they do not need, but they ask the police officers (arguably the most important asset a crime-ridden city could have) to lower their pay? Unbelievable.

There are sometimes 4 or 5 shootings per day in the few square miles that make up New Haven.

[basehead617]

Nobody can agree on what needs to get cut, that's a major problem here.

Anyway, you can read sensationalist stories pointing out 'waste' like programs funding acorn research and stuff, but all of that adds up to nothing. There's far less meaningful low-hanging fruit than is implied in these conversations.

Giant benefits and pension packages to public sector workers are the major drain on state finances. If unions would rather there be massive layoffs (and pray for PR blowback against the legislatures/governors) than do some of the other things that the private sector is having to do to cope with the state of its finances, well, that's their decision. They'll have to live with it, as will we.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by jjinla

While New Haven may indeed be a dangerous city, this story is playing over and over throughout the US. Would you feel the same if they were laying off 16 cops in Greenwich?

And what about the teachers that have to teach the unfortunate offspring of these criminals in dangerous towns? They deserve every penny, too. I'm not saying they don't do a noble job. I am saying that if you search other posts, you'll hear an earful about everyone NOT wanting their taxes to go up. So what do you propose they cut instead? Welfare? Education?

Nobody's job stinks any less than it did 3+ years ago, yet many of us are making far less than we did back then. The public sector is not immune.

The real bloat in public jobs is in administration, police/fire chiefs, prinicipals, superintendants, etc. If they'd focus more on these there'd be less need to cut teachers and cops/firefighters in the inner cities.

I think in Camden it is really extreme, like 1/4 of the force or something.

[stewarthaas]

Originally Posted by jjinla

No, but it's not underpaid, either, for an entry level position requiring no college degree with full benefits and retirement.

The bottom line is this, cities are broke. States are broke. The federal government is broke. Is there waste? Certainly. But since federal money dried up, states have less money, and as such have literally raided city coffers. They have cut millions in aid to all of the cities to be used in a variety of ways. A city can't print more money like the fed can. When it's gone, it's gone. And it is gone.

Everyone and everything is getting cut now. All have had the option to take pay cuts or layoffs. The police officer's choice was to lay off workers, leaving a city at increased risk, as well as their own force.

I'm not going to justify their greed by feeling bad for the 16 laid off employees. I'd be interested to know if those 16 voted yea or nea, though!

What should college have to do with determining what a person makes risking their life day to day so we can fulfill our lives?

[JViello]

Page 42, section 3, paragraph 1 of the union manifesto.

This is union leadership doing what they do. Instead of arguing their main agenda, they have you all up in arms over 16 rookies making $42K per year.

The reality is, these unions are a veil to what's REALLY going on behind the curtains in this country as a whole.

The "Working Families Party" who helped get people like Malloy, DeStefano etc in power, are indeed funded and supported by local unions such as SEIU. Their agenda is exactly what you think it is. Get the money out of the rich's pocket, and into the hands of the inner city poor, grow government and stiffle capitalism and the private sector.

Malloy is towing the line and feeding those who elected him - the inner city, led by activists. In his new budget money's are being taken from cities like Manchester, and smaller surrounding towns and is being reallocated to Waterbury, New Have, Hartford etc. Interesting eh? Did anyone look at the percentage of votes in the last governors election? CT's big cities were well over 90% Malloy. If that doesn't open your eyes, it should.

What has the head of "Working Familes" party - Jon Green said in this own words?

We’re deeply troubled by the growing gap between the rich and just about everyone else. We work to hold elected officials in all parties accountable on issues of economic fairness for working and middle class families...

...For every office, from City Council up to Governor, Working Families studies the records of the candidates and endorses the ones who are most committed to fighting for our progressive values. Then we work our butts of to help them get elected...

In 2008 in Connecticut, our top priority race was helping to elect Democrat Jim Himes in CT-4. We knocked on tens of thousands of doors, talking to mostly unaffiliated suburban voters, asking people to vote for healthcare and jobs by voting on the Working Families line for Jim Himes - we delivered over 9000 votes on the Working Families ballot line to help push him over the top in an extremely tight race. Statewide, Working Families garnered about 85,000 votes for cross-endorsed Democratic Congressional candidates.

But Election Day is just the beginning. After Election Day, we work year-round to hold them accountable to their progressive promises on our issues. The paid sick days campaign is our top legislative priority this year.
Some other high priorities of ours include passing comprehensive healthcare reform, creating thousands of green jobs, slowing or stopping outsourcing of good jobs, closing corporate tax loopholes and making our tax structure more progressive.

Hmm, lets see. We have a state healtcare package and paid sick day package in the works, Pratt was sued for "outsourcing", and the new budget makes the "tax structure more progressive".

Boy, sure sounds like they have a red phone to the state legislature doesn't it? Considering how tight the governmors race was, I think it's safe to say this organization is directly responsible for Malloy being in power.

These 16 guys are simply sacrificial lambs. As Lenin said "If You Want to Make an Omelet, You Must Be Willing to Break a Few Eggs."

Don't take the bait (Many of you seem to have not, thankfully.) step back and start connecting the dots.

[inetlom]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

The real bloat in public jobs is in administration, police/fire chiefs, prinicipals, superintendants, etc. If they'd focus more on these there'd be less need to cut teachers and cops/firefighters in the inner cities.

Definitely true in New Haven - add on a misguided school rebuilding project (all of the schools in the city have been newly built or rebuilt in the last few years, which has done basically nothing to improve the quality of education since the administration chose to invest in physical buildings over human resources) and talk of serious corruption in the process for hiring administrators, especially in education (you have to know the superintendent personally, they say), and that's where a lot of issues are coming from.

The mayor wants to be known for changing education in New Haven, which is great, but his priorities on how to do that are pretty backwards. We have too many schools and too many administrators as a result, as well as huge costs from the building projects.

I'm hesitant about saying our police/fire department are entirely bloated if only because we need all the help we can get in those areas. If that means paying assistant chiefs more to create continuity, that means paying them more.

I've said this before, but to stress it again: not all New Haven voters are uneducated and in search of handouts. Yes, some people are. But give credit to those of us who live here, work just as hard as anyone else, and want to see the city improve. None of those people are happy about these layoffs (which, in addition to the police department, include 33 school staff (3 administrators) and 40-something city workers).

A big problem for New Haven is that 'no one wants to live here' - everyone moves to the suburbs for better schools and better safety. But if we keep losing police officers and teachers, no one will want to live here. The mayor has had almost 20 years to figure this out - while I think the city has improved, it's not enough.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by inetlom

The mayor wants to be known for changing education in New Haven, which is great, but his priorities on how to do that are pretty backwards. We have too many schools and too many administrators as a result, as well as huge costs from the building projects.

Please see my post above yours. There is a reason things that make no sense like this take place. It's all politics and union control. Who do you think builds those schools, Bobby Carpenter down the street? Nope. Local 242 or whatever is in there sopping up big pay and tax money. It's a different kind of redistribution of wealth. So are most public sector jobs these days.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by JViello

These 16 guys are simply sacrificial lambs."

I agree with your post very much, but take issue with the fact that these 16 officers lost their jobs IMO due to politics. A few Lieutenants and Sergeants offered to retire to save jobs during talks of concessions in September - their offer was shot down. It's pure politics between the union and the chief/mayor, who was recently given a vote of no confidence. He was nowhere to be found during protests to support his guys.

Surrounding towns such as Wallingford, Derby, North Haven and Orange are now in the process of recruiting these guys and girls, which sucks for the entry level officers-to-be who were given conditional offers. Can't blame the towns though - no further testing or academy expenses, and the former NHPD officers can start immediately.

[googabee]

Look at the bright side; Sixteen cops got laid off, but the rest got second homes, boats, lavish pensions etc.