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Property tax in Hartford seems to be too high. Do not know exactly number, but in New Haven county with $300,000 home, most towns the property tax is about $4000 to $6000 a year. The key here is that mill rate is only on assessed value, which may be only $200,000 on a $300,000 worth of property.
Agreed that the math isn't that simple. Both the prop tax and CT income tax are too high. A family grossing $120K is paying less than $6K in state income tax. Houston traffic is worse than Hartford's and the school systems in that area are always in flux with redistricting and zoning. There are other lifestyle differences too which may or may not apply to individual circumstances, but I would not call this a slam dunk for the Houston burbs. I know a couple of people who have reloed from Boston/CT to Houston for work and are finding the COL, school quality, and traffic to be quite different than what they initially thought.
Whip me!! I am horribly selfish and not likely to change before I pass on
You know how rich people stay rich? By not wasting money.
We're talking 11K between Glastonbury and Nashville.
54K between Southport and Nashville. The people I know with money - every single one of them - care about every penny they have. And they can afford 3 million dollar homes.
And yet the Stamford area has the highest concentration of millionaires in the country. Again, the true wealthy will not care much about a few thousand in taxes. They can use as a deduction on their income taxes anyways. It is more about location to most of them, otherwise you would not have the wealth you have here or in other high tax states like New York, Massachusetts or New Jersey. Jay
Since a lot of people seem to think TN is in anvalid comparison because it has no NYC equivalent nearby.. I give you the comparison with Texas.
Also instead of looking at millionaires, how about some more normal numbers.
Lets Compare West Hartford, CT with The Woodlands, TX. Both are more or less luxury areas. The Woodlands is a master planned community outside of Houston(4th largest city in the US) about 40 miles north.
Lets take a family earning $120,000 a year and owning a house worth $300,000. They also own two cars with a current value of $25k each. This should be pretty typical for two professionals.
CT Taxes:
Income Tax.. they are in the 5.5% bracket = $6600
Property Tax... mill rate 41.04 = $12,312
Car Property Tax.. mill rate 32.00 based on 70% of value = $1120 total.
Total Taxes paid to CT = $20,112 or 16.76% of their income.
TX Taxes:
Income Tax = $0
Property Tax... 2.3% of home value after homestead exemptions = $6900
Car Property Tax = $0
Total Taxes paid to TX = $6,900 or 5.75% of their income.
If you think keeping 11% of their income.. or $1101 a month more is not a big deal, you need to come back down to earth.
Texas also has most of its school funding from local, property taxes, with the ISD's being able to set their tax rates. This is much easier to manage long term than relying on hand outs from the state.
Ammenity wise, the two towns do not compare.. the Woodlands is much nicer. Real life incomes in the Houston and Dallas markets have caught up with CT also.
Even just stepping over the border into Agawam, MA will save this family almost $7500 a year, and would put them not much farther away from work in CT. That is the problem CT faces.
West Hartford has some of the highest taxes in the metro Hartford area. People are willing to pay them because they like the community and the services they get. If you chose neighboring Farmington, you would find a lower tax amount.
Also I believe you are forgetting to add the HOA fees residents pay in Woodlands. That would be on top of the property tax. You don't necessarily pay them here in Connecticut unless you live in a condo or one of the very few planned communities. Jay
West Hartford has some of the highest taxes in the metro Hartford area. People are willing to pay them because they like the community and the services they get. If you chose neighboring Farmington, you would find a lower tax amount.
Also I believe you are forgetting to add the HOA fees residents pay in Woodlands. That would be on top of the property tax. You don't necessarily pay them here in Connecticut unless you live in a condo or one of the very few planned communities. Jay
HOA's are not a big deal.. most are $50 a month, some of the elaborite ones are $100. But you get community pools, gyms, and walking paths for the money. Cheaper than joining the Y in many cases.
Also when it comes to schools, people like to knock the south, but if you look at the wealthy areas of the south, they compete nicely with the NE, in some cases surpass. The Woodlands High School and Conard Hish School in West Hartford are 1 pt apart(The Woodlands 451, Conard 450) on the US News Top 500 High School list for example.. so its a good comparison.
I was just trying to use some basic math on these numbers.. they are not 100% correct because there are always exceptions to the rule. In TX the property taxes are based on valuations too, and there is a limit in how much they can increase it each year, so you can end up with a house taxed at a much lower level than the sellable value. Since this is the same for both states, it did not seem like a valuable item to include in the comparison.
The problem CT is going to have is as their money available to fund ammenities goes down to pay off the pension debt, these other states that have much lower taxes, but a greater return on your tax investment in actual items you can see, will make more people want to move. I feel like a lot of people I know in their 30s stay in Connecticut because they never travel outside of the Northeast, yet like to trash the south like they are so superior. Living in TX for four years, then coming back has been very eye opening.
Property tax in Hartford seems to be too high. Do not know exactly number, but in New Haven county with $300,000 home, most towns the property tax is about $4000 to $6000 a year. The key here is that mill rate is only on assessed value, which may be only $200,000 on a $300,000 worth of property.
Correct -- the illustration doesn't show valid property tax calculations. Hartford assesses at 33% of market value; West Hartford assesses at 70% of market value. A 300,000 market value home in Hartford would have an assessed value of 100,000 and in West Hartford of 210,000.
That in turn is the number multiplied by the millage rate.
In this example, the property taxes in West Hartford would be $8600 annually and in Hartford would be $7400 annually.
Yes, the tax burden in Hartford County is higher than in suburban Houston, but it's not as extreme as shown in the illustration.
HOA's are not a big deal.. most are $50 a month, some of the elaborite ones are $100. But you get community pools, gyms, and walking paths for the money. Cheaper than joining the Y in many cases.
Also when it comes to schools, people like to knock the south, but if you look at the wealthy areas of the south, they compete nicely with the NE, in some cases surpass. The Woodlands High School and Conard Hish School in West Hartford are 1 pt apart(The Woodlands 451, Conard 450) on the US News Top 500 High School list for example.. so its a good comparison.
I was just trying to use some basic math on these numbers.. they are not 100% correct because there are always exceptions to the rule. In TX the property taxes are based on valuations too, and there is a limit in how much they can increase it each year, so you can end up with a house taxed at a much lower level than the sellable value. Since this is the same for both states, it did not seem like a valuable item to include in the comparison.
The problem CT is going to have is as their money available to fund ammenities goes down to pay off the pension debt, these other states that have much lower taxes, but a greater return on your tax investment in actual items you can see, will make more people want to move. I feel like a lot of people I know in their 30s stay in Connecticut because they never travel outside of the Northeast, yet like to trash the south like they are so superior. Living in TX for four years, then coming back has been very eye opening.
Still that is $600 to $1,200 more that someone in the Woodlands will have to pay that you would not pay here. So you know West Hartford has public pools as do most towns around here. It is just that the taxes there pay for it where there it is an HOA. Also note that you are comparing just ONE of the most affluent communities in Texas to one here. Go outside of the Woodlands and things are a lot different.
As for your comments on posters here, you do not know their backgrounds or why they draw the opinions they do. The bottom line is that there are good and bad in every state and which is best is subjective at best. Yes, Texas is generally lower in cost but salaries tend to be lower too and the better places to live (like the Woodlands) are really not that much cheaper than portions of Connecticut. Jay
I have lived in Western Mass and CT for 34 of my 38 years of life.. have worked in CT for 13 of my 17 post-college years. Please do not assume the same about me.
A community pool and an HOA pool are very different animals. One is for the exclusive use of its fee paying residents, only.. in a community that is often less than 1000 people. A community pool open to all often brings in people from outside your community who could care less about the pools upkeep.
I could make a similar case in Houston for Cypress, Sugar Land, League City, Katy, Kingwood, and several others which are considered middle class suburbs. I could go to Dallas and pick a dozen large communities too. When I lived there in 2011 you could make the case about salaries... but that story is no longer the truth, especially if you talk about Dallas with all the Fortune 500 companies moving there.
I am not assuming anything about you. You were the one questioning other posters here.
That said, large HOA's have large pools and they are used by anyone living in that community which can be a lot more than just 1,000 people. For those here who do not want to use public pools, there are many private swim clubs that people can join voluntarily. Here in Glastonbury there are four of them in addition to two public pools, a public pond with a beach and the high school pool.
As for salaries in large Texas cities, lower salaries may no longer be true but the same can be said about lower home prices too. It is all relative. Jay
Let's pick Justin Timberlake. Lives on 125 acres in a rural town south of Nashville with Jessica Biel who also makes big money. No state income tax so they're dodging the 13.3% California state income tax bracket. Forbes has him at $57 million in income so combined, they're likely avoiding almost $10 million in state income taxes. County property tax mill rate is $21.50. The land was $4 million and is mostly in a land trust taxed at a much lower rate. The house he lives in is $2.8 million. He might be paying $60K in property taxes and avoids $10 million in state income tax.
Actually that's a poor example. As an entertainer (or athlete) he and his wife both pay income taxes to the states where they earn their income. Every time he appears on Jimmy Fallon, he is required to pay NYS income tax.
A better example is our buddy from the other forum who has business in PA but lives in TN.
West Hartford has some of the highest taxes in the metro Hartford area. People are willing to pay them because they like the community and the services they get. If you chose neighboring Farmington, you would find a lower tax amount.
West Hartford property taxes are high because they have almost 10,000 students in the school system at a bit more than $15K per student. 21% speak some other language than English at home. 21% get free lunch. 12% are special ed. $166 million for the school system. Most of the school budget is labor and West Hartford pays pretty big money. Masters + 20 is $90K plus all the benefits for 185 work days. The muni part is $103 million. Like most places, the school system is the dominant cost.
You could zero out the muni part of the West Hartford budget and the taxes would still be really high.
Actually that's a poor example. As an entertainer (or athlete) he and his wife both pay income taxes to the states where they earn their income. Every time he appears on Jimmy Fallon, he is required to pay NYS income tax.
A better example is our buddy from the other forum who has business in PA but lives in TN.
This is known as the "Michael Jordan Tax" aka "Jock Tax" I suppose if MJ was a loser instead we eventually would have had the "Kobe Bryant tax" or the "Lebron Tax"
"As the story goes, soon after the celebrations, parades and excitement of the ’91 Finals, the State of California notified Michael Jordan that he would owe taxes for the days he spent in Los Angeles. In direct response to this new egregious policy, Illinois passed a bill famously known as “Michael Jordan’s Revenge” – imposing income taxes on athletes from California and any other state that imposed a tax on their residents. Many city and state governments followed suit, seizing the opportunity to reach into the pockets of visiting athletes. Today, nearly every state that hosts professional sports teams has enacted their own Jock Tax policy. Even city local taxing authorities such as Cleveland, Kansas City, Detroit and Philadelphia established similar rules independent of the state."
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