[JayCT]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

I suspect this is another reason why people are hesitant to spend time or money there. Most people who live in the suburbs pride themselves on living in places with little to no political corruption. Unlike our capitol city, which reeks of it, both at the state and municipal level. There's a tremendous sense of mistrust in the government doing the right thing in this state, and many people equate Hartford with being the epicenter of it. I've said before and I'll say again, I understand the appeal of new sports stadiums, but developers and planners don't deserve a dime from the taxpayers for this. Welfare as we know it may be dying, but corporate welfare is alive and kicking, and this is the most egregious example of it.

Apart from that, despite all the talk of new apartments and developments going on in Hartford, it's still regarded as a 9 to 5 city by most suburbanites. Not saying that I personally feel that way, but enough people do where it prevents the city from being as successful as it could be. Short of that, many of the bordering suburbs offer their own sense of nightlife, at lower cost, and that's where people are spending their money, and that's where their tax dollars are going. And it's not just West Hartford that has a good dining scene. Drive through Bloomfield sometime over by Wintonbury Plaza and you'll see what I mean: they have wonderful ethnic restaurants and bakeries, they have a movie theater, they have an amazing gastropub (Republic). Off the beaten path, they also have two amazing microbreweries and now a distillery. All of these places are popular draws. So even as Hartford tries to up the ante, so too have the suburbs.

The only thing I disagree with is that corporate welfare is not just "alive and kicking", it is thriving. But what do you do when you are trying to attract development and other cities and states are rolling out the red carpet not only to new development but to investors and longtime Connecticut businesses? Do we ignore it or do we fight back? Tough call.

It is not only Bloomfield doing it, Glastonbury has added a lot to keep people in town and attract others from out of town as well. It is trying to become the West Hartford of east of the Connecticut River. In fact, many West Hartford restaurants and stores have shops in Glastonbury now. Makes sense. There are also a couple of new larger scale (at least by Glastonbury's definition) apartment complexes going up in Glastonbury Center to attract younger affluent renters. Manchester is also trying to improve its downtown with new restaurants and shops though it has not been quite as successful, at least not yet. Jay

[JayCT]

This is pretty impressive. UConn's downtown Hartford campus is among the top new education construction projects in the country. Jay

UConn downtown seen as bright spot in soft construction climate | HartfordBusiness.com

[MikefromCT]

Originally Posted by JayCT

The only thing I disagree with is that corporate welfare is not just "alive and kicking", it is thriving. But what do you do when you are trying to attract development and other cities and states are rolling out the red carpet not only to new development but to investors and longtime Connecticut businesses? Do we ignore it or do we fight back? Tough call.

In regards strictly to sports teams, it's very simple. Do what San Francisco did when the Giants were threatening to leave town. The city balked at the idea of a taxpayer-funded crib and called their bluff, essentially saying, "You want a new stadium? Fine, but don't expect the taxpayers to help support your hobby." The result? A new ballyard with about 90% of it built with PRIVATE money. Now contrast that with what Hartford did, and it looks like New England's Rising Star couldn't have botched this any worse.

Originally Posted by JayCT

It is not only Bloomfield doing it, Glastonbury has added a lot to keep people in town and attract others from out of town as well. It is trying to become the West Hartford of east of the Connecticut River. In fact, many West Hartford restaurants and stores have shops in Glastonbury now. Makes sense. There are also a couple of new larger scale (at least by Glastonbury's definition) apartment complexes going up in Glastonbury Center to attract younger affluent renters. Manchester is also trying to improve its downtown with new restaurants and shops though it has not been quite as successful, at least not yet. Jay

I've noticed. I mention Bloomfield because like WH it borders Hartford and has some of the same characteristics, and though many people don't regard it as a "destination" for dining or nightlife, it's holding its own quite well. To a lesser degree, Newington and Wethersfield have followed suit with their downtown areas (albeit on a much smaller scale). I know the conventional wisdom is that everyone is returning to the cities, and that may be in larger metro areas, but here what I'm seeing is the bordering towns enjoying the most success, and the revival of their Main Streets has a great deal to do with this, IMO. It's also because they provide many of the benefits of a city (walkable streets, livelier neighborhoods than newer developments, access to public transit, downtown Main Street areas that enjoy a certain degree of nightlife), but also reap the benefits of suburbs (lower crime, better performing schools, slightly less densely populated than cities, etc.)

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by MikefromCT

In regards strictly to sports teams, it's very simple. Do what San Francisco did when the Giants were threatening to leave town. The city balked at the idea of a taxpayer-funded crib and called their bluff, essentially saying, "You want a new stadium? Fine, but don't expect the taxpayers to help support your hobby." The result? A new ballyard with about 90% of it built with PRIVATE money. Now contrast that with what Hartford did, and it looks like New England's Rising Star couldn't have botched this any worse.



I've noticed. I mention Bloomfield because it's just north of Hartford, and though many people don't regard it as a "destination" for dining or nightlife, it's holding its own quite well. To a lesser degree, Newington and Wethersfield have followed suit with their downtown areas (albeit on a much smaller scale). I know the conventional wisdom is that everyone is returning to the cities, and that may be in larger metro areas, but here what I'm seeing is the bordering towns enjoying the most success, and the revival of their Main Streets has a great deal to do with this, IMO.

San Francisco though is kind of the exception. New York City spent $1.2 billion to keep the Yankees in the Bronx. The Cowboys Stadium is costing taxpayers $324 million. Marlins Stadium cost taxpayers $500 million. The list goes on and on. Giant stadium is billed as the first to be built without public funds but that is not entirely true. They got a $10 million tax abatement from the city and $80 million in infrastructure improvements off-site. So it still cost taxpayers $90 million. This is definitely the least paid by taxpayers in recent years but the team is strongly tied to the City of San Francisco so they took the deal. Not many other teams would do so. A city like Hartford has to make an investment like this to attract a new team to town. Just wait until the come up with a plan to replace the XL Center. Who do you think will pay for that? Jay

[MikefromCT]

Originally Posted by JayCT

San Francisco though is kind of the exception. New York City spent $1.2 billion to keep the Yankees in the Bronx. The Cowboys Stadium is costing taxpayers $324 million. Marlins Stadium cost taxpayers $500 million. The list goes on and on. Giant stadium is billed as the first to be built without public funds but that is not entirely true. They got a $10 million tax abatement from the city and $80 million in infrastructure improvements off-site. So it still cost taxpayers $90 million. This is definitely the least paid by taxpayers in recent years but the team is strongly tied to the City of San Francisco so they took the deal. Not many other teams would do so. A city like Hartford has to make an investment like this to attract a new team to town. Just wait until the come up with a plan to replace the XL Center. Who do you think will pay for that? Jay

Hence the reason why I say sports financing is the worst example of corporate welfare. And it is. The public should not be paying for this. It's not our responsibility. One can't claim to be in favor of fiscal responsbility while pulling out all stakes just to appease a handful of pigs in suits.

PS, the Yankees would never have left the Bronx for Jersey. The owners had been threatening to move to Lyndhurst since 1986, only there was one little problem: Jersey didn't want them. Former Governor Christine Todd Whitman had said there was no land and no money for the team. And a mere 25% said of those polled said they would attend a game in a new facility outside the city. Read the book "Field of Schemes" by Joanna Cagan and Neil DeMause and you will see what I mean. You will also see what's happened to many of these cities who foolishly fell for the con job of stadium funding at the expense of compromising streets, schools and services. The economic benefits of sports complexes have been grossly overstated. There is empirical data that confirms this. Hartford is not capable of supporting a professional sports team. We're a small New England city, like Providence. We need to stop kidding ourselves of anything otherwise, so any plan to replace the XL Center at public expense should be scrapped.

[Mr_250]

Interesting...Developer Delays Second Phase of Hartford Baseball Stadium Construction | WNPR News

Second Phase of project is on hold. Interesting that the second phase, which he is financing, is on hold till next year. Cold feet anyone?

My guess, April 2016 will come around and they will keep pushing it off. (I'll be coming back to this post to either eat my words or chuckle). Why do I think that?... because they do not want to be doing major construction at the very time the new ballpark opens with all the crowds coming in. It would create a nightmare scenario and leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

In 5 months we shall see.

[ctguy87]

Originally Posted by Mr_250

Interesting...Developer Delays Second Phase of Hartford Baseball Stadium Construction | WNPR News

Second Phase of project is on hold. Interesting that the second phase, which he is financing, is on hold till next year. Cold feet anyone?

My guess, April 2016 will come around and they will keep pushing it off. (I'll be coming back to this post to either eat my words or chuckle). Why do I think that?... because they do not want to be doing major construction at the very time the new ballpark opens with all the crowds coming in. It would create a nightmare scenario and leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

In 5 months we shall see.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. Another shady developer who gets the city to pay for a new baseball stadium and fails to deliver his end of the bargain. I thought the rental market in Hartford was HOT HOT HOT?

[Mike 75]

Originally Posted by ctguy87

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. Another shady developer who gets the city to pay for a new baseball stadium and fails to deliver his end of the bargain. I thought the rental market in Hartford was HOT HOT HOT?

And the other big economic development project being bandied about is a casino. These projects are frivolous at best, corrupt at worst.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by ctguy87

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. Another shady developer who gets the city to pay for a new baseball stadium and fails to deliver his end of the bargain. I thought the rental market in Hartford was HOT HOT HOT?

It is "HOT HOT HOT". I guess there could be reservations about living north of I-84 which is viewed by many as part of the North End, the city's most troubled neighborhood. Of course all this is speculation. Only the developer and maybe some key people in the city know the real reason for the delay. Jay

[beerbeer]

Considering the north end was empty lots for three decades...let's see how long it takes the ball park neighborhood to actually develop. Just the ball park construction site is far better than what was there before.

It took a five to ten years for Front Street/Front Street Apartments/UConn to get going. But the neighborhood seems to be thriving. And the arrow is definitely pointed up. Large developments are tricky. They are almost always over budget and they are rarely on schedule.