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It's how you ask the questions. I do support State Rights, State Rights is my view on Gun Control for instance. But I am far from being a gun owner.
I believe that it is the job of the government to feed the widows and the orphans, so a medical system where poor have access to quality medical care and middle class that does not have sell their nest eggs when they get sick is what sounds right to me.
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I firmly support the 2nd Amendment, and there was a reason as to WHY it was put in place! So we may disagree on that a bit. As for safety nets, I don't believe in the government providing health care at the expense of others! I will agree that the current health care system is a racket, but unfortunately don't have the answers on how to solve it. A first would be to secure our borders, stop the flow of illegals, and the free ride that they get! As for safety nets, I do feel that we do need to protect our most vulnerable in society, such as the elderly, children and the sick. However; I have a hard time providing freebies to those who won't do an honest day's work, because our government practically encourages pumping out more kids so as to provide more benefits. I am also against corporate welfare, and think bailing out big businesses for making horrible business decisions was wrong! If I own a business and it goes belly up, then it is on me, so why shouldn't there be consequences for the likes of the banks, and the auto makers for making bad decisions? But no, we go ahead and bail them out at the taxpayers expense, and then they cash in on their golden parachutes! As for SSI, look I was told when I started working that it was money that I HAD TO PAY to set aside for my retirement, now you're telling me, that it may not be there, because of the wasteful spending of our federal government! Give me my damn money back and let me invest it on how I see fit! For those who have paid into it under the premise of setting aside for retirement, they definitely deserve to get what they paid in, because they paid into the system.
Anyway, I don't want to go off track here, so let's get back to discussing the ridiculousness of prohibition and how history has shown why it is a failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta
such arrogance
Yeah, Meth makers think they have the right to have home labs too to make Meth
Vistain and Browns fan,
Setting aside Pot
You 2 in general seem like such angry and bitter people.
Angry at the world, angry with the USA.
Angry with Police Officers and the law.
And yelling and screaming like you were at a rally to take these things down.
And it seems you have chosen the path of dope to put forth such anger and bitterness. An outlet.
It's the constant intense attacking and bullying of people who don't agree with you.
And the extreme off the wall comparisons.
From a fellow human being, really take a step back and look at yourselves.
Really.
I am truly saying this to you out of concern for seeing people so upset.
The only bullying being done here is from those who continue to support prohibition, and the practice of prosecuting, locking up and criminalizing their fellow Americans for something as simple as smoking a little weed! Let's not forget the broad generalizations that everyone that partakes is ASSumed to be a lying, cheating, degenerate loser, who is basically a crook, or has no job! So yeah, when I hear this crap, I'm gonna call someone out on it! Because I can find numerous other examples where those stereotypes and generalizations do NOT apply and are not the case! And you may want to look in the mirror when it comes to off the wall comparisons, because you just tried to use meth as a comparison to cannabis, when there is absolutely no comparison!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian
I think that applies to folks like Atalanta, but not our friendly officer friend. Atalanta doesn't really care about the subject, so has no desire to look into it far enough to realize there really is more to it than what she's been taught over the last several decades.
I guess me being a free thinking individual and tending to deal with things case by case, I don't understand that sort of black and white thinking.
On the other hand, our officer friend is biased, but not necessarily brainwashed. He goes out and arrests some folks that deserved getting arrested, and invariably finds some pot even if the arrest was non-drug related. So in his mind it is easy (maybe even logical?) to connect pot with their abhorrent behavior.
If you want my opinion, as a former DJ in some of the Cleveland area's bars and night clubs alcohol has been the cause of more abhorrent and belligerent behavior than cannabis.
But then he makes a pot-only related bust (usually because of a tip, or maybe someone spotted a plant growing on their property). If he finds no other problems with the person (or family) it doesn't matter, he completely overlooks the fact that pot was playing no negative role in that person's life. It doesn't even occur to him that maybe it's possible that most of the pot he confiscates from the real criminals plays no role in their deviant behavior either.
Part of the blame is on those who employ him. Remember that when you vote. I do.
Combine that with the fact that drug related asset forfeitures represents such a significant part of his employer's budget, and it just becomes normal to look past reality and declare that pot is the reason for almost all of the abhorrent behavior he observes.
That is the part that is the hardest to stomach for me. Like I asked him before, and he would not respond, if he walked into my household and spotted some pot, but knew that otherwise I was a happy, healthy, productive member of society, he would still throw me in jail and his agency would start forfeiture proceedings so that they could steal my house. It doesn't even matter to them about any collateral damage that might be caused, like causing my businesses to fail, which would throw many others out of work too, they just want my house.
It makes you wonder who the real criminals are! Stealing someone's house under the guise of forefeiture is completely overkill! Not only that it is downright immoral! Over smoking or possessing cannabis???? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
I know that is the way it works, I've been through it personally. I did not lose my house ONLY because it was mortgaged "to the hilt", as the drug officer put it. However, someone a few miles away DID lose their paid for house, in an upscale neighborhood, because of 1 plant found growing in their back yard. Again, that information came from the drug agent's mouth directly.
You call that sane? You call that justice? I'm afraid our friendly officer would...
Nope! I call it tyranny!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
You know it's funny...
I think maybe it is an error of human perception, that when someone disagrees with your position and will not be moved, you perceive them as hostile and therefore "upset" or "angry."
Restricting people's choices when nobody has been harmed in the process tends to upset me.
I do not pick up on an angry tone in any of their posts. I don't see the attacking. I see that when people don't agree with you, you feel that you are under attack. And frankly I also know a LOT of people, myself included, who don't totally trust the government or the police anymore and would like to see many things changed. And it is a FACT that police departments are able to ask for more funding, more hires, more equipment, in order to fight the drug war. And a FACT that we imprison a higher percentage of our population than any other country on earth. A FACT that some police departments will happily use the drug war as an excuse for asset forfeiture, and abusive, illegal searches. If notmeofficer does not participate in such corruption, I say good for him! Doesn't mean it isn't going on, all over the country.
The fact that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, with a number of them being for drug offenses doesn't do justice to being sold as "the land of the free."
I love the United States. I love so many cities, natural wonders, roadside curiosities, and wonderful people, let alone all of the opportunities we are blessed to enjoy here. Our art, our music, our history, our many cultures. Love it! I bet Vis. and Brownsfan do, too. But realize that we were brought up to understand that our Founding Fathers wanted freedom from tyranny and abuse, and they challenged future Americans to prevent our leadership from ever becoming as corrupt and oppressive as the one they broke away from. Why do you think that they enshrined the freedom to bear arms? We are accountable. And if we passively allow ourselves to be oppressed, we are failing.
Indeed. Too many people have sacrificed their individual freedoms for more security i.e. our trumped up drug war, The Patriot Act, and the programs affiliated it with it...ect... who was it that said those who would trade their individual liberties for more security deserve neither?
For many anti-prohibitionists (including ones like me who don't even use the stuff) this goes way beyond a desire to sit around stoned without getting hassled. This is about a culture where police are viewing civilians as enemies in a "war" and an outrageous number of Americans are in jail, their lives and families torn apart, because of something that is only illegal because some fat cats didn't want to lose money in the first place.
There is no logical argument for keeping cannabis illegal. Any negative effects on society or the individual is orders of magnitude less when compared with alcohol.
Anyone rallying against cannabis must also rally against alcohol, otherwise their arguments carry no weight at all. And if they really feel that people shouldn't be allowed recreational drugs then alcohol is the one to be prohibited if you want damage control.
In pretty much every metric, alcohol is far worse than pot. Fact, end of story.
The only negative health issue with cannabis consumption (edibles and vaporization) is the early onset of schizophrenia. But it's simply a catalyst and does not cause the underlying condition. You're headed down that road regardless.
Nomeofficer, I'm sure you'd rather not be called names (hint: sounds like druggie) or be judged by the "bad apple" police officers. Yet that is exactly what you're doing to cannabis users - we're all low life druggies... yeah right! You get zero respect from me because of your name calling and inability to discuss this without labeling us with your broad brush. Thank god, it's not your place to decide the laws, but to enforce them. We the people get to decide the laws.
I have no issue with the PO's in my town. Pot gets sold, legally, right in-front of their revenue generation operation.But there are schools, so enforcing the speed limit isn't such a bad idea. Much better use of their time than busting harmless cannabis users. Honestly, the PO's in my town are pretty cool guys. Knowing that they can't jail people for harmless, victimless crimes has dramatically increased my respect for them.
No kidding on those speeding through a school zone!
On the other hand, our officer friend is biased, but not necessarily brainwashed. He goes out and arrests some folks that deserved getting arrested, and invariably finds some pot even if the arrest was non-drug related. So in his mind it is easy (maybe even logical?) to connect pot with their abhorrent behavior.
.
So now he's your friend. After you've been rude and disrespectful his profession
So now he's your friend. After you've trashed him and his profession
After seeing some of the cops that I have seen it is also hard to say "it's just a profession" and not be mad at the police force. But if you follow the news , you can read about furgenson type of problems and infer how cops are viewed by the population.
Since I admit to using cannabis, I realize now that I am a bad, arrogant person, and am harming society.
I will now go close my businesses, firing everyone, thus protecting them from anymore of the harm they must have been exposed to by being around such a lying, non-trustworthy (and just plain bad) person.
Then I will sell off those businesses in order to get as much money as I can into my bank accounts. That way, when I turn myself in to notmeofficer and they seize my assets, there will be the maximum amount of funds available for them to go out and find other abhorrent people like myself.
I will also notify all of my customers that all of the computer code they have been operating their business on for years now was written by a dangerous pothead, and that they should immediately start looking for the damage caused to their business by all the malfunctioning computers.
Also, as a gesture of faith, I will give all of my inventions and creations to science, so they can be dismantled in the hopes of finding a way to protect the world from other harmful inventions created by dumbed-down stoners.
Then I will serve my time, although I know it will not even come close to repaying society for all the harm I have caused, the worst of which may be because I was a musician back in the 70's. The resulting harm caused by listening to my doped out music back then cannot be made right again. I am truly sorry for that, I hope not many went insane in their later years. But at least I wasn't playing jazz, that would have made the damage (especially to white females) so much worse!
Once I am out I will use only booze and cigarettes to feed my frenzied desires, and will lie back and reap the rewards of doing so. In the meantime, if any of you that I have harmed need your lawn mowed or your trash taken out, just let me know and I'll be there as soon as I sober up.
After seeing some of the cops that I have seen it is also hard to say "it's just a profession" and not be mad at the police force. But if you follow the news , you can read about furgenson type of problems and infer how cops are viewed by the population.
That is not how I feel. Atalanta and notmeofficer have both made assumptions and put words in my mouth.
In an earlier post I wrote this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian
When you are out doing your job and you nab a criminal, or prevent a crime, or put yourself in harms way to save a life, I bet that gives you one hell of a rush. I just can't imagine what that must feel like. I have nothing but respect and admiration for people like you. Thank you for your service to our society.
HOWEVER,
I will leave out the part after HOWEVER, because the prohibitionists completely ignore that part of the debate anyway.
notmeofficer may not be a personal friend, but that doesn't mean I don't respect him or his job. I vehemently disagree with his position on prohibition, of course, but that isn't personal. It is only Atalanta that is reading rudeness and disrespect into it.
All I have to say is don't let me be on a jury for a cannabis related case. My questions would be as such... Is there any proof that the accused caused harm to anyone, as in murder, assault, robbery (a drug deal gone bad) while possessing/consuming/distributing the cannabis? Is there any proof that the accused sold to a minor or used a minor to distribute the cannabis? If the answers are no, then my vote is not guilty!
That is not how I feel. Atalanta and notmeofficer have both made assumptions and put words in my mouth.
In an earlier post I wrote this:
I will leave out the part after HOWEVER, because the prohibitionists completely ignore that part of the debate anyway.
notmeofficer may not be a personal friend, but that doesn't mean I don't respect him or his job. I vehemently disagree with his position on prohibition, of course, but that isn't personal. It is only Atalanta that is reading rudeness and disrespect into it.
A typical cop is a blue color civil servant who's police academy exams screen out, if he is to smart for the job.
An attack dog, serving his master, and that's when he is being professional...
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GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
