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Oh my goodness! Please don't have a stroke over this little punk! I'm sure he can find a woman to marry - men IN PRISON find women who'll marry them! I mean, if he was your age YOU just might since you sympathize and believe him so there are lots of others out there - correct? <shrug>
Why do you speak in hyperbole and snark all the time? It's almost as if you can't make a case on facts alone.
Not just lower - far lower. But the myth is that it's higher. It would be even lower if it wasn't for the severe restictions that the registry imposes that often don't make sense. Most rearrests are for registry violations, not sex crimes. I don;t see a nationwide study but here's one from PA:
Except, neither the poster you initially replied to nor I argued such reneeh63 simply stated that there were high recidivism rates, which there are. I seconded that.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,633 posts, read 17,975,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate
They certainly don't pull jurors from some special pool of objective and epistemically driven people. They much like the people on this thread. And it is scary ay eff.
Speaking of the campus rape crisis, you might need a drink after reading this:
The Rape Crisis Center was asked by the local university to moderate a discussion forum with the Panhellenic Council (greeks) on campus. The leaders of the fraternities, and the sororities were involved. Date rape on campus was becoming a well-known issue, and the thought was to have the fraternity leaders lead the male students on campus in an effort to educate and try to stem sexual violence.
At the time, I was a volunteer speaker for the Rape Crisis Center. We had such very, very high hopes in this effort.
Game on.
We met with the men first, and the fraternity leaders said they were absolutely willing to help out. They recognized the problem that was becoming very public, date rape on campus, and wanted direction in how to lead. We talked about "no means no", and they said we get that. They said tell women to state no, clearly, and mean it, and we'll take that direction.
So we met with the sorority leaders. We talked about the need to say no in a very loud, clear voice, and move your body away from them and stand up. All good. Good to go.
So we had a meeting with the fraternity and sorority leaders, the Panhellenic Council, and it all went to hell. The men said we can't tell when you're saying no, you often you change your mind in a few seconds. The women said if we said yes right away we'd be seen by y'all as easy, so we have to say no several times, and let you try a little harder. At a party, the women said, we don't want to seem like prudes when you put your hands where we don't want them, so we quietly go along with it.
We, from the Rape Crisis Center, sat there and watched in wonder. These young leaders were making it clear, why campus rape/date rape is such a problem. (NOT ALWAYS. Sometimes it's completely clear. But we were hearing confusion on the part of the men, and the women were adding to their confusion by acknowledging they were purposely being unclear in their responses).
The problem is enormous. Sex is nuanced. Women who are interested in having sex often put men off a little, because romance is a give and take chase, and women who don't want sexual advances are often embarrassed to communicate clearly.
The popular song at that time, "When I say no I mean maybe and when I say maybe I mean yes" did come into the conversation. And also, the popular joke, "Don't. Stop. Don't. Stop. Ooh, Don't Stop" also was brought up.
I'm sorry to run on so long, but really, discerning legal consent is so difficult, and there are NO couples who are going to say "do you want to have sex do you still want it do you still want it do you still want it are you awake do you still want it you haven't moved in 10 seconds do you still want sex".
Which is apparently the standard Turner is being held to.
His life has been completely ruined, and if he were to commit suicide at this point, it would be understandable.
He is now, in a situation that is worse than what used to be a leper colony. LITERALLY.
Google registering as a sex offender for life. For LIFE. This man is young, and he may live to be 85 as a complete recluse.
He will never be able to participate in society, ever, EVER, again. He can't be around children, even his family members. If he has siblings who have children, he can't be there for Thanksgiving of Christmas, if children are present.
He can't marry and produce children. He can't rent a place where children reside, like an apartment complex. He will have to register where he is living, for life, as a sex offender, and anyone in the neighborhood will be made aware of his presence, by a knock on the door by Law Enforcement.
He will have to darken his home on Halloween, so children won't ring his doorbell that night, and he can expect a law officer to visit him on halloween to ensure he's not handing out candy.
I think it might change your perspective on this case. Sincerely. Google what this will mean to him, and imagine living like that.
Even murderers don't live like he will have to live.
What you don't know, you don't know, Renee. Live as a registered sex offender is HELL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Oh my goodness! Please don't have a stroke over this little punk! I'm sure he can find a woman to marry - men IN PRISON find women who'll marry them! I mean, if he was your age YOU just might since you sympathize and believe him so there are lots of others out there - correct? <shrug>
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate
Why do you speak in hyperbole and snark all the time? It's almost as if you can't make a case on facts alone.
I was responding to someone else's drama in kind...please keep up. You're not exactly snark-free - and your case is not airtight so keep workin' on it.
She had road rash, which suggests she fell on the pavement. It doesn't matter whether they arrived at that point together or he happened across her - once she was passed out in the street, it was impossible for him to have her consent.
She was not on pavement. It happened next to the basketball court on the grass. And the two witnesses didn't see Turner fingering her. Because he wasn't at that time. She only passed out afterwards.
Quote:
Carl A. and Peter J., Stanford graduate students, biked to the Kappa Alpha party in the early hours on January 18. As they approached the fraternity house, they saw two people on the ground between a basketball court and a wooden shed. The area was unlit, but lights from the nearby fraternity house allowed them to see the pair. The person on top began thrusting in a sexual manner.
Brock Turner attempting to pleasure this woman? Outrageous. By that definition any man could finger or do oral on a woman forcibly and then say it's not rape because he was "pleasuring her." I have had forced insertion of man's fingers in my vagina and I can assure you there was no pleasure in it whatsoever.
Except, neither the poster you initially replied to nor I argued such reneeh63 simply stated that there were high recidivism rates, which there are. I seconded that.
It's low, not high. Better treatment would lower it even more. But we send these people into prisons where they get abused.
Quote:
The evidence suggests otherwise. Sex crimes researchers R. Karl Hanson and Kelly E. Morton-Bourgon of Public Safety Canada conducted a large-scale meta-analysis (quantitative review) of recidivism rates among adult sex offenders. They found a rate of 14 percent over a period averaging five to six years. Recidivism rates increased over time, reaching 24 percent by 15 years. The figures are clearly out of alignment with the public’s more dire expectations...... studies have shown that treatment can significantly reduce recidivism for both sex and nonsexual crimes. Hanson and his colleagues conducted a meta-analysis on treatment and found that 17 percent of untreated subjects reoffended, whereas 10 percent of treated subjects did so.
Brock Turner attempting to pleasure this woman? Outrageous. By that definition any man could finger or do oral on a woman forcibly and then say it's not rape because he was "pleasuring her." I have had forced insertion of man's fingers in my vagina and I can assure you there was no pleasure in it whatsoever.
That's totally false. Rape is lack of consent, not lack of sexual pleasure. And just because you don't like fingering doesn't mean others don't It's a common form of foreplay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheChocolate
They certainly don't pull jurors from some special pool of objective and epistemically driven people. They much like the people on this thread. And it is scary ay eff.
Speaking of the campus rape crisis, you might need a drink after reading this:
I read that one. I've been studying this issue since 2016 when the Turner case made the news. It's really appalling what rape hysteria is doing to people. It;s just like the red scare back in the 50s.
That's totally false. Rape is lack of consent, not lack of sexual pleasure. And just because you don't like fingering doesn't mean others don't It's a common form of foreplay.
Of course I don't like forced fingering. It's rape when it is forced on someone. I said it was forced on me. You obviously think it's okay to force fingers in a woman's vagina against her will. That's truly awful that you believe it is okay. It's awful that you believe what Brock did was "foreplay". I'm not sure I even know how to respond to that.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,633 posts, read 17,975,706 times
Reputation: 50660
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
I was responding to someone else's drama in kind...please keep up. You're not exactly snark-free - and your case is not airtight so keep workin' on it.
I'm not about drama, Renee. I'm about serious, very sincere conversations.
And I resent you telling me who I should empathize with.
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reneeh63 simply stated that there were high recidivism rates, which there are. I seconded that.
