End of suburban sprawl?

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by happycrow

I see absolutely nothing here addressing the fundamental reasons for sprawl.

Baldwin Park video looks nice, but I couldn't afford the *cars* in that video, let alone the houses. Far as I can tell, if that's the exemplar, "new urbanism" stands for "really really nice suburbs, with really really nice suburban houses, for people who can afford it."

Exactly. New Urbanism is a buzz word that gets misused very often, IMHO.

My other beef: Cramming an idea down the throats of areas that don't have a market to support it. Craig Ranch in McKinney is following much of the ideals of New Urbanism but can be argued to be one of the least successful developments in all of the northern burbs. I hope it makes it, but the walkable area in the center is dominated by a large apartment complex over retail that has remained empty for some time. I love the Watters Creek development in Allen, but I am afraid the retail up the road at Stacy (Allen Village/Fairview Village) is too much retail for the area and it might not make it. Even the Fairview side which is designed to be more walkable and incorporates residential seems much less active than the Allen side which is more traditional big box. It is always jumping on that side of Stacy, the Fairview side much less.

Market forces still dictate what will happen in our developmental patterns. The whole of the American way of doing things will have to be re-worked to get some of these ideas on the table, and most Americans are still attached to free market forces to abide more government intrusion. I personally like much of what New Urbanism proposes, but you cannot force feed something on Americans without disrupting the philosophies that have made this country what it is.

[Aceraceae]

Watters Creek is so much more enjoyable than that garbage at Stacy Rd. I think both can make it, but I hate developments like the Target/Cabelas area in Allen. Frisco Bridges is the same category. Nothing but annoying parking lot maze.

[happycrow]

Pretty much. I hate to sound like a broken record, but no matter how shiny one's ideas for reinventing things are, if the middle class can't afford it, then it's self-congratulatory pap at best, mental-masturbation at worst. I'm a wildly-overeducated head-of-household for a small family that brings in a little under six figures a year (so a bit more than twice what the average family earns), and it would be economically irrational for me to even try to afford any of the places these folks suggest as an alternative to sprawl.

...and frankly, so long as the entire economy is rigged by the federal government to be driven by real-estaten, and in turn set housing into an ever-more-expensive investment, rather than a living cost which should become more, rather than less affordable over time, nothing about this is going to change. It's not like "hedonic adjustments" apply much here.

[Ewan]

The elephant in the room here is schools. There are awesome, affordable places in Dallas proper in which you could live happily with a young family... until the time comes for them to enter DISD. Then all bets are off. As long as Dallas fails in education, Dallas will fail to be a viable choice for families who can afford to move out there.

And that, to me, is a huge shame. City living is very satisfying, and I think kids would get a lot out of being exposed to the diversity (not just ethnic) that is in many suburbs lacking.

My wife and I are childfree and very happy where we are in Dallas, but if we ever did have kids we'd need to move somewhere like Coppell to make sure they get a decent education, and that is not something either of us would want to do.

Would also like to add that happycrow and TheOverdog's posts in this thread have been a pleasure to read - really insightful.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Aceraceae

Watters Creek is so much more enjoyable than that garbage at Stacy Rd. I think both can make it, but I hate developments like the Target/Cabelas area in Allen. Frisco Bridges is the same category. Nothing but annoying parking lot maze.

I agree, but the two areas you mention as parking mazes are some of the most, if not THE most visited retail districts in Collin County. You can ascribe New Urbanist ideals but if the people don't come and it can't make it, what do you have then?

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I agree, but the two areas you mention as parking mazes are some of the most, if not THE most visited retail districts in Collin County. You can ascribe New Urbanist ideals but if the people don't come and it can't make it, what do you have then?

Watters Creek yesterday evening was very crowded. As previously stated I dont like the garbage at Stacy Rd. Even with my disdain for that place we do visit from time to time. Who is to say that if it was designed another way it wouldnt be as crowded. It is the primary retail location for a lot of people. I tend to think it would be successful even with another layout.

Frisco Bridges makes me think of this....

[GripeWater]

Waters Creek is sort of like Garland's Firewheel, only it lacks big anchor stores. I like it but don't see much potential for success.

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by GripeWater

Waters Creek is sort of like Garland's Firewheel, only it lacks big anchor stores. I like it but don't see much potential for success.

Lack of Target is what I like about it.

[Aceraceae]

Nutella crepe and a latte at Frogg's are better than any of the previous locations can offer.