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I am talking Dallas city limits here. I know Dallas isn't urban in the same way that NY is but by urban in the Dallas context, I mean "not like Denton or a Frisco" and completely cookie cutter with long commutes.
Saw a nice area in North Dallas that I was checking out for my family (we are mulling over a move to Dallas from Staten Island NY) that seemed like it would be a cool place to raise the family. The zoned school was WT White HS which is less than a mile from the home I saw. I looked up the school's rating and demographics and saw quite a disparity between the school and the community its in. The area where the house is seems to be affluent, and safe and the demographics are mostly white and Asian with less than a quarter of residents in the zip code being black or Hispanic. However the school is almost 90% black and Hispanic, with less than 300 white or Asian students out of a school of 2200. There is a very high amount of ESL students and kids receiving free lunch. This seems in complete contrast to the area the school is in, and I would like to know the reason for such a disparity? I expected for non-Asian minority students to be over represented because there seems to be a lot of private schools in the area that's probably scoop up some children from more affluent families, and also because black and Hispanic people tend to have more kids. But this disparity was stark and almost in complete contrast to the area.
First question is, what's the deal with that?
Second question is, where are the areas with good schools in a slightly "urban" less typical Texas suburbia areas? We have one going into 6th and one going into 8th grade so HS is right around the corner. We know that good parenting is more important than good school scores when it comes to student success but a good school definitely helps.
We like Dallas and both feel that Texas is generally a place more in tuned with our politics, values and goals and I have an opportunity to transfer from here in our hometown of NYC to the Downtown Dallas office. We are coming from Staten Island, not Midtown Manhattan so we don't require a super urban district with a 24/7 buzz (don't think that exists in Texas anyhow) but we would like something a little less cookie cutter and a little more lively than Carrolton, Richardson, Denton, Plano or Frisco. North Dallas from the Park Cities (think they are out of our budget) up to the Lyndon Johnson Freeway and the area around the Galleria mall seems to fit the bill of what we want, but we want to go the public school route. Our budget would be $350 for a 3 bedroom rancher.
The neighborhoods zoned to WT White are also home to the majority of the elite private schools in Dallas. Most affluent neighborhood kids from single family homes are enrolled in private schools, leaving the Multi-family housing (which tends to be less affluent, less educated parents, and less white/Asian) kids in public schools. The area does have a few desirable elementary schools that are high performing and have involved parents, but that doesn't help you. FWIW, WT White IS one of the top neighborhood high schools in Dallas. Hillcrest and Woodrow Wilson are the other two. Yes, they're mostly full of minority and low-income kids, but they do a much better job than the other 20+ neighborhood high schools in the district. Still may not suit your needs, but thought you should know that is the best DISD has to offer (non-magnet)....
For relatively close-in neighborhoods, I'd recommend 3 high school feeder zones in Richardson ISD. Richardson is the closest in suburb to the city of Dallas and RISD covers neighborhoods in the city of Dallas and Richardson. Check out homes zoned to Lake Highlands Jr High & HS (city of Dallas, inside the northest corner of 635), Richardson HS (mostly city of Dallas, just north of 635 and west of 75), and JJ Pearce HS (mostly city of Richardson, best academics of the 3, furthest north). $350k is a decent budget for these areas (low for Lake Highlands but there should be some small ranch options there); just be prepared to move fast as there is very low inventory on the market now. Richardson is one of the most diverse suburbs with residents from all over the world, as well as yuppie families who are priced out of Dallas proper and still want a semi-urban feel. Very sought after due to schools and closer in proximity to Dallas (ie, on a weekend, you can get downtown in 15 minutes or so), has the best selection of ethnic food in the DFW area (a Chinatown east of 75, lots of mom & pop Middle Eastern & Indian restaurants....very anti-chain city council).
Dallas ISD does have some of the top high schools in the nation, but those campuses are all magnet schools and very difficult to get into. If you didn't get into the magnet middle schools, you'd be stuck with your neighborhood public. I know you said you wanted city of Dallas only and not north of 635, but the reality is that there aren't any good neighborhood high schools in DISD. Lake Highlands is your only option if you want to be inside 635. Within DISD boundaries, the majority of non ED, non-Hispanic/non-black families are enrolled in private schools after grade 5 (probably under grade 5 as well, but there are at least a dozen good elementary options in DISD....it all falls apart in middle school).
Last edited by TurtleCreek80; 04-24-2015 at 09:41 PM..
Honestly, if you want the best schools, white kids are only going to bring you down anyway. You want a school with east Asians, south Asians and Africans. Those are the high achievers. I don't see white kids as being any different than blacks or Latinos. If you want your kid to compete with the best, stick with the Asians and Africans.
The whole "white student" school population is really just a proxy for higher education and income. I don't think whites are any better than blacks or hispanics but the percentage of whites is a good indicator of higher family income and education level which will lead to better educational outcomes for the kids.
The issue I have as a Dallas native is that "money" in this city is associated with whiteness to a greater degree than in most other major cities. L.A., Chicago, NYC, D.C. etc., have large swaths of non-white/Asian poverty but also have enclaves of highly educated, well-to-do POC's.
I don't think the people here care all that much about education. If the top-ranked middle/high schools were in Oak Cliff, the transplants would still move to an area that's mostly white. In other words, a bunch of well-to-do blacks moving into West Plano, Southlake or Frisco would make the locals antsy. Schools are a (good) cover to avoid diversity.
Whites want to be around Asians because they think that the values are the same. My experience is that Asians that are proud of their culture and not self-hating don't feel this connection that whites feel. I think it's one-sided. Perhaps it stems from a desire to associate oneself with success. Asian numbers are small so they aren't as inclined to push back against a majority white apparatus.
The issue I have as a Dallas native is that "money" in this city is associated with whiteness to a greater degree than in most other major cities. L.A., Chicago, NYC, D.C. etc., have large swaths of non-white/Asian poverty but also have enclaves of highly educated, well-to-do POC's.
I don't think the people here care all that much about education. If the top-ranked middle/high schools were in Oak Cliff, the transplants would still move to an area that's mostly white. In other words, a bunch of well-to-do blacks moving into West Plano, Southlake or Frisco would make the locals antsy. Schools are a (good) cover to avoid diversity.
Whites want to be around Asians because they think that the values are the same. My experience is that Asians that are proud of their culture and not self-hating don't feel this connection that whites feel. I think it's one-sided. Perhaps it stems from a desire to associate oneself with success. Asian numbers are small so they aren't as inclined to push back against a majority white apparatus.
Where do I start...
"Well to do blacks" make no one "antsy." Poverty makes people antsy.
I'm upset that this devolved into a racial debate instead of a discussion about schools. Statistically, everywhere in the country white and Asian students perform better in schools. I wish it were equal trust me because it would save this country a ton of strife because education is the key but for now those are the stats. Even in NYC, poor white and Asian schools in Brooklyn that pull from immigrant Polish/Russian/Chinese neighborhoods with high percentages of ESL and poverty perform better than middle class black schools in Queens or Long Island.
However, I was more asking the question about the stark disparity between what the neighborhood looks like demographically, and what the school looks like demographically. It's almost completely opposite and I was curious as to the reason. I had assumed it was because of the large amount of private schools adjacent to the HS, but I was also wondering if the reason was because of zoning and I was curious if the zoning system in Dallas is unique (ie Children don't attend their neighborhood school).
I'm not a tiger dad concerned with the best schools (although Asians and African immigrants DO perform the best absolutely!) however I am a parent and it's my responsibility to send my kids to a school where they will not be surrounded by students in abject poverty, and where they will not stick out like a sore thumb because of the color of their skin, in school you and I boyh know very well that being different looking than everyone in your class is a great way to get bullied (been there done that, I'm a redhead).
This is a relocation forum at the end of the day, and I was asking about schools because good schools are the reason folks buy into good neighborhoods. I really did try to be as PC as possible in my question, but at the end of the day I am more interested in the actual facts about the schools and not being PC. People who are offended at the mere mention of actual facts about race and school performance are people who are offended over everything, and looking out for my kids is a bit more important to me than walking on eggshells to not offend some social justice warriors whose time would be better spent praising Louis Farrakhan on tumblr or demanding gender neutral bathrooms or something like that.
Again, this is a relocation forum. I am considering relocating and I asked a completely valid question that the first poster answered very nicely, don't project your own insecurities onto me and my family by derailing a perfectly valid thread about schools for my children into some whiny SJW hoopla. Grow up. Answer the question succinctly or don't comment. Thanks.
To the first poster, TurtleCreek80:
Thank you very much about your information in regards to the schools in Richardson ISD. I did some research and they all seem to perform very well and be in lovely neighborhoods. Here is my question, how is it that one can live in the city limits of Dallas, and be zoned to Richardson schools? How does zoning work down there? Thanks.
In general, the ISD's (Independent School Districts) are zoned to the town names they are named for but attendance zones quiver at borders so you'll find that almost every ISD contains some communities with addresses not in the actual town. This applies to many areas, Dallas address properties have places zoned to Richardson & Plano schools, maybe even Mesquite schools. Fort Worth addresses have properties zoned to many of their border burbs. A couple of Examples:
City of Irving: Irving ISD (not highly rated), Carrollton/Farmers Branch ISD (average rated) Coppell ISD (a top rated district) By the way, Irving is a burb that's not very burby and many homes in the Valley Ranch area are zoned to Coppell Schools. Example http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...82-25015?row=3
City of Euless: HEB ISD (Hurst/Euless/Bedford -- average to good schools) and GCISD (Grapevine Colleyville - good to great schools)
Last edited by WorldKlas; 04-25-2015 at 09:20 AM..
In Texas, school districts are "independent"; that's the I in ISD. Independent means they don't follow city boundaries, but their own. It's incredibly important that you validate the school zoning of an address with the ISD prior to purchase. The vast majority of real estate listings are correct, but every once in a while, an agent will assume and the assumption is incorrect.
Hence, there are homes in the city of Dallas zoned to Plano, Richerdson, Highlanf Park, and Dallas ISD's just depending on the homes' exact locations. There are also a few homes in Highland Park zoned to Dallas ISD, for example. Never assume. Always verify.
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