City of Dallas housing - is it sustainable? (private schools, to live)

[Bullandram1]

Dallas is either super wealthy people or homeless people. I recently went and visited downtown Dallas and that’s what it was. Super rich and super homeless. There is no middle class. And the streets smelled like trash juice and dog crap. Sad state of affairs. I’ll stick to the burbs with middle class people who actually take care of their communities.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Great points, I would buy you a a beer in the real world.


Semi related to a lot of southern Dallas being under developed:

This is something that I think people miss when they discuss issues like "Food Deserts"

Southern Dallas is substantially more "Suburban" than Northern Dallas.

I think the Food Desert issue is two fold: One one hand it has to do with money.

The way poor people buy things is different (in smaller amounts, more based around when they get paid) This has an impact on how profitable it is to run a thing like a grocery store....the economics leads to more "Mini Marts" and less healthy food.

However, if you look at the definition of a food desert you will see that it is how far it is to the closest grocery store, usually under a mile or half a mile, depending on the preferred metric. It's designed for more urban areas than Southern Dallas.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6859...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6734...7i16384!8i8192

Neither of these look like places you would expect to be able to walk half a mile to a grocery store, hell walk half a mile to anything.

Now the Cockrell Hill spot (2nd Link) is actually under 10 min away from the WinCo in Duncanville via car (Top of the line, employee owned supermarket with great prices, check them out if you have never been)

That is the general trend. I estimate over 90% of South Dallas is an under 15 min drive from supermarket.



OK, cool, so what is my point?

Most people in Southern Dallas have a car, even the poor, but for those who do not, getting healthy food is logistically complicated in addition to economically hard.

If you are poor and careless in suburbia it is really, really hard. Most of Southern Dallas is suburbia, if not in name, by design.

You aren't supposed to be able to walk to the store.

Southern Dallas, south of Illinois (or Kiest perhaps on the eastern side of 35) as well as ALL of PG is very 1950s/60s+ car dependent suburbia (with a few minor exceptions) It is just barely far enough removed from it's streetcar suburban neighbors to not provide the semi urban amenities structures.

These areas would have been "Food Deserts" even when they were middle class, because you would be expected to drive a couple miles to the grocery store back then.

So why to we focus on the "Food Deserts" without trying to understand them? Well first off, it's a way people in NYC talk about poverty, so some people just don't understand the structural differences.

On the other hand, it provides a nice narrative. Consider Bonton Farms which was a massive waste of money. I'm big on gardening, I've done it my whole life, but understand that urban farms, by and large, are a stupid idea and don't really do much to help 95% of Southern Dallas that is already closer to vegetables at a grocery store.

TL;DR

Southern Dallas is more "Suburban" than Northern Dallas and the Dallas food deserts and isolation from jobs are what you get when you combine poverty, linear zoning, and low density burbs.

I’ve never thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense. Southern Dallas is highly suburban in form. That’s what South Oak Cliff was when it was originally developed. It’s was 1950s suburban track starter homes. Especially, along Kiest Blvd, Marsalis Ave, Lancaster Rd, etc. Many of the homes had the same basic design...like the McMansions of today in the Northern Suburbs.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Bullandram1

Dallas is either super wealthy people or homeless people. I recently went and visited downtown Dallas and that’s what it was. Super rich and super homeless. There is no middle class. And the streets smelled like trash juice and dog crap. Sad state of affairs. I’ll stick to the burbs with middle class people who actually take care of their communities.

Welcome to the City. If you think Downtown Dallas is bad, try SF or LA.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by FreeVilley

The city of Dallas wastes so much money on projects, they could/should start subsidizing grocery stores in these communities. I grew up in Pleasant Grove, in the 90s we had plenty of grocery stores, albeit sometimes a mile to 2 miles away. I saw the Tom Thumb leave, and become a Minyards to later become a 99cent only store. The Sack N Save went dark. Traditional grocery stores have models that support a higher disposable income crowd, such as bakeries, butchers, deli's, hot foods, florists, pharmacies, starbucks etc. The city could help support grocers with less frills to bring food to the people. But now that the current administration has declared beef jerky, nacho cheese and pickles to be part of a healthy balanced diet, the "food desert" statistics will skew and even less will be done.

I remember all of those stores. There was an Albertsons on Buckner Blvd and Bruton Road. There was also a Kroger in PG shopping center (Now El Rancho).

Sadly, The city tried to attract a large grocer to Southern Dallas but no company wanted to take the risk. I believe they offered 2 or 3 million dollars. What makes it hard to attract businesses, is the failure of Dallas City Hall to stimulate economic growth (jobs) in these areas. Chains are scared of going into neighborhoods where they have a high possibility of shrink.

The Walmart on Wheatland Rd (I-20) in Red Bird went out of business due to a very large amount of shrink. It’s not an excuse to ever steal, but when it gets so bad that’s the only way to survive...it shows a lot of what the city isn’t going to curb economic hardships.

[NP78]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

I remember all of those stores. There was an Albertsons on Buckner Blvd and Bruton Road. There was also a Kroger in PG shopping center (Now El Rancho).

Sadly, The city tried to attract a large grocer to Southern Dallas but no company wanted to take the risk. I believe they offered 2 or 3 million dollars. What makes it hard to attract businesses, is the failure of Dallas City Hall to stimulate economic growth (jobs) in these areas. Chains are scared of going into neighborhoods where they have a high possibility of shrink.

The Walmart on Wheatland Rd (I-20) in Red Bird went out of business due to a very large amount of shrink. It’s not an excuse to ever steal, but when it gets so bad that’s the only way to survive...it shows a lot of what the city isn’t going to curb economic hardships.

What exactly would you like the city to do?

[JKAddict]

Originally Posted by Bullandram1

Dallas is either super wealthy people or homeless people. I recently went and visited downtown Dallas and that’s what it was. Super rich and super homeless. There is no middle class. And the streets smelled like trash juice and dog crap. Sad state of affairs. I’ll stick to the burbs with middle class people who actually take care of their communities.

...... Downtown is not that bad lol. If you think that's bad, you obviously haven't traveled or seen Downtown in the 2000s.

[mqmercado]

Originally Posted by Bullandram1

Dallas is either super wealthy people or homeless people. I recently went and visited downtown Dallas and that’s what it was. Super rich and super homeless. There is no middle class. And the streets smelled like trash juice and dog crap. Sad state of affairs. I’ll stick to the burbs with middle class people who actually take care of their communities.

You must not spend a lot of time in Dallas. Dallas has a lot of middle class communities. I would also say that most communities in Dallas are taken care of. However, I have noticed that some people from the suburbs equate "old" with run down. Which is simply not true.

Downtown Dallas is actually pretty nice with parks, restaurants, museums and other venues. This poster is speaking irresponsibly by painting Dallas with a broad brush. I have made an effort to not stereotype the suburbs and learn about the different communities. I challenge you to do the same for Dallas before you make these responses.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by mqmercado

You must not spend a lot of time in Dallas. Dallas has a lot of middle class communities. I would also say that most communities in Dallas are taken care of. However, I have noticed that some people from the suburbs equate "old" with run down. Which is simply not true.

Downtown Dallas is actually pretty nice with parks, restaurants, museums and other venues. This poster is speaking irresponsibly by painting Dallas with a broad brush. I have made an effort to not stereotype the suburbs and learn about the different communities. I challenge you to do the same for Dallas before you make these responses.

I'm pretty sure that poster was trolling.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by Bullandram1

Dallas is either super wealthy people or homeless people. I recently went and visited downtown Dallas and that’s what it was. Super rich and super homeless. There is no middle class. And the streets smelled like trash juice and dog crap. Sad state of affairs. I’ll stick to the burbs with middle class people who actually take care of their communities.

Gini index numbers for both Dallas and DFW are wholly unremarkable relative to peer cities. Using the commonly accepted 67-200% of median income definition Dallas' middle class falls between $45,000-$135,000. Legions of people - even downtown - earn within that span. So your, "super wealthy or homeless/no middle class " claims aren't accurate.

I'm downtown most days......could you direct me to the streets that smell like dog poop and trash juice?

[eastdallasmom]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

I'm pretty sure that poster was trolling.

Unfortunately, there are people who think this way about the City of Dallas, though. There was a thread in a FB group I am in where someone had asked for a recommendation on places for a 20-something young woman to look for an apartment and one poster was insistent that there is nowhere East of 75 that is safe for a single woman to live by herself. Of course, several others chimed in to say how inaccurate that was and to suggest areas of East Dallas that would be perfectly fine, but she kept arguing with them based on "her experience as a realtor." In all fairness to the people who think Dallas is trashy or horribly unsafe and scary, there are people who live in Dallas who paint the burbs with an equally broad brush.