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Old 03-19-2017, 09:45 AM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,475 posts, read 14,316,428 times
Reputation: 23264

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
prevent discrimination ... boon to acceptance
potayto potahto
Hardly, want is not need.

Basically you are saying that it is ok to commit fraud because of a want?
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Lake Grove
2,753 posts, read 1,974,694 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dltordj View Post
That is correct. Your example is an "Emotional" support or companion dog as far as I am concerned. A companion dog isn't trained to perform a disability-specific task.


Contrapagan has it right. A lot of comments in this thread show that people do not understand what makes a dog a legitimate service dog and why there should be a specific tag or paperwork. Anyone who tries to pass off their dog as a service animal should be ashamed. More businesses are becoming dog friendly. If you just cannot leave your dog home then frequent businesses that don't mind and respect those that do.


A service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Tasks performed can include, among other things, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items, alerting a person to a sound, reminding a person to take medication, or pressing an elevator button.
Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals either. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. Examples of animals that fit the ADA’s definition of “service animal” because they have been specifically trained to perform a task for the person with a disability:
· Guide Dog or Seeing Eye® Dog1 is a carefully trained dog that serves as a travel tool for persons who have severe visual impairments or are blind.
· Hearing or Signal Dog is a dog that has been trained to alert a person who has a significant hearing loss or is deaf when a sound occurs, such as a knock on the door.
· Psychiatric Service Dog is a dog that has been trained to perform tasks that assist individuals with disabilities to detect the onset of psychiatric episodes and lessen their effects. Tasks performed by psychiatric service animals may include reminding the handler to take medicine, providing safety checks or room searches, or turning on lights for persons with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, interrupting self-mutilation by persons with dissociative identity disorders, and keeping disoriented individuals from danger.
· SSigDOG (sensory signal dogs or social signal dog) is a dog trained to assist a person with autism. The dog alerts the handler to distracting repetitive movements common among those with autism, allowing the person to stop the movement (e.g., hand flapping).
· Seizure Response Dog is a dog trained to assist a person with a seizure disorder. How the dog serves the person depends on the person’s needs. The dog may stand guard over the person during a seizure or the dog may go for help. A few dogs have learned to predict a seizure and warn the person in advance to sit down or move to a safe place.
How would you know if a dog is a hearing dog or not? You cannot ask for a demonstration.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,672 posts, read 28,709,830 times
Reputation: 43707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina14 View Post
I think of my dog as my emotional support dog;..........
All of our pets support us emotionally. But legally, the "emotional support dog" is used by a person with mental health disabilities. It's a legal term that means something specific.

Basically, people who claim that their pet is an emotional support animal in order to get special privileges is going around pretending to be crazy.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:47 AM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,475 posts, read 14,316,428 times
Reputation: 23264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
How would you know if a dog is a hearing dog or not? You cannot ask for a demonstration.
No, you can't ask for a demonstration, but you are allowed to ask what task the dog is trained for. TASK. The animal is trained for one or more SPECIFIC jobs.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:34 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,494 posts, read 62,152,821 times
Reputation: 32173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Basically you are saying that it is ok to commit fraud...?
I'm not saying anything of the sort.

If anything...I'm saying that bad laws and policies don't get respected.
As regards these "service animal only" laws/policies... they miss the mark.
This is why they will get ignored and/or circumvented.

Well intended as they might be, and in principle I generally support the LARGER objectives,
the actual on the ground real world effect is to discriminate against most other dogs.
That's all.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Illinois
122 posts, read 62,968 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
My dog is well behaved and likes to tag along on errands. He gets lonely if I leave him alone. Is there really so much harm in a little white lie? It's not like I'm parking in a handicapped space. I would never do that because a disabled person might actually need it. I also would not take my dog into a establishment that only allows one service animal at a time. That would potentionally be a nuisance to a disabled person who needs access to it.
No. Your dog is NOT well behaved. A well-behaved dog knows to wait quietly for you to return home from your errands. Being left alone for a period of time is a basic (and I mean BASIC) temperament test requirement.

Your dog sounds like he suffers from separation anxiety. Take him to a qualified behaviorist to work on his issues instead of rationalizing YOUR behavior as a “little white lie”.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:04 PM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,475 posts, read 14,316,428 times
Reputation: 23264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
I'm with Rational on this one. This shouldn't be considered a fraud. The real crime here is not allowing dogs into public places if they can handle it.
Who gets to say if they can handle it? Pet owners? Most of them are not at all objective and many will bring their pets if they feel like they can get away with it, no matter how poorly behaved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
If anything...I'm saying that bad laws and policies don't get respected.
Following that line of thinking we should do away with laws against theft? There are an awful lot of shoplifters who think those laws aren't worth respecting either. I mean do we just let everyone decide for themselves which laws they want to follow?
Don't like the laws then instead of ignoring them and breaking them work to change them. But considering these laws are being introduced and passed my guess would be that it's a sign that people are getting fed up with people attempting to pass off their pets as service animals so that they can take them into places where most people don't want to have to deal with them.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Illinois
122 posts, read 62,968 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
What? You don't even know my dog and yet you feel qualified to diagnose him? Odd.
Read. I said your dog sounds like he suffers from SA. I don’t know if he draws a frowny face on a notepad for you or takes down the curtains and sets them on fire while you are gone which causes you to describe him as lonely.

A qualified behaviorist will do an appropriate diagnoses - not me.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,185 posts, read 15,021,691 times
Reputation: 18249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
THIS is what I want for the US. I want special service dog tags, which require government oversight, just like we have handicap plates. I have zero objection to service dogs but pretend service dogs annoy the crap out of me. This only two questions with zero verification policy we have here is begging for abuse - and people are doing it in spades.
I agree with this.^^^ I don't see how we can avoid doing this in the future as it is out of hand!

We recently had someone in the RV park come in with a "service" dog or so she said. She said it would be going to work with her. There are rules about leaving a dog unattended. Well, it turns out this woman parked next to us and was working a 12 hour night shift. The dog started barking when she left and continued off and on throughout the night. I asked her in the morning "Are you aware your dog barks when you are gone?" She said "I was not." There was no "sorry", yet she probably was after I reported her.
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:26 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,731 posts, read 10,624,988 times
Reputation: 19904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
You would probably like my dog. I know, I know every pet owner things that but my dog really is well behaved. He's not a bother to anybody.
I would probably adore your dog. However, not everyone does, and it has nothing to do with any individual dog. There are children terrified of dogs, there are people allergic to dogs, and there people who just plain don't like animals in places where people go. All those people have to just suck it up when someone with a service animal enters the same space they are in. It is one thing to basically tell them that society doesn't care about their wants, or even needs, if it's a legitimate service dog serving a disabled person, they are just going to have to adjust. It is a totally different story when it's an average person and their pet, in that case the pet needs to stay home, stay outside, or stay in the car. Your WANTS are not superior to other individuals' wants, and they definitely don't trump others' needs.
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