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Because the high lever businessmen that wrote the thing for their own benefit cannot tolerate criticism. After all THEY ARE THE EXECUTIVES and beyond criticism.
How exactly is our nation any better off with the loss of our manufacturing expertise...
Hmmm. Another victim of deliberate disinformation.
While China (with ten times the number of manufacturing workers) can now claim to have edged ahead of the US in total manufacturing value added, the US remains at monster-level in the field, with a huge lead still in complex, high-end manufacturing.
What out-of-the-loopers typically don't know enough to understand anyway is that they are not actually complaining about losses of manufacturing, but about losses of manufacturing jobs. The days of dropping out of high school, putting on a hard hat, and going to work in a well-paid union job down at the mill are over. You can ask yourself how and why that came to happen, but like agriculture a century before it, manufacturing has simply lost whatever capacity it may once have had to provide jobs for the masses. While global manufacturing output has soared over the past 20 years, manufacturing employment has fallen since the mid-1990's in every one of the world's dozen major manufacturing economies. China -- far from taking "our" jobs -- has lost in two decades more manufacturing jobs than the US currently has. US losses have meanwhile been about average for the group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
...and an absolute dependance on a communist regime for most of our consumer goods and electronics?
Oh great. A throwback Chicom-fearing McCarthyite. Meanwhile, without the labor cost advantage provided in Asia (not just China), you couldn't afford to have the electronics that you do. There was once a time in this country when consumers were outraged by the use of "sweat-shop labor" and would simply refuse to buy goods produced in that way. Clearly that has changed in the last 20 years as well. Now people rush out to buy the latest iPhone and don't bat an eyelash at the exploitation of labor involved in its production.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
Things we used to be #1 in, we are no longer even competitive in. Once you loss a competitive edge, it's very difficult to get it back.
Friedman was wrong. The world has always been flat. It has merely become flat over greater and greater distances of late. Once it was the next town, or the next state, or the next country, now it's approaching everywhere. This is just the way the world works. Adapt or die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
I would like my country to be a leader in something, besides getting fat. Oh wait, Mexico is number one at that now. We can't do anything right...
What you would like doesn't matter a fig. And your having succumbed to the recent obesity-meme provides one illustration of why.
We all know about the pre-nafta nafta. That's seriously your ace in the hole??
None of you has so far managed to utter the first intelligible word about NAFTA. You don't know what it is, how it works, or what it does. You have simply swallowed a bunch of Tea Party populist swill. In the meantime, as there weren't a lot of trade barriers between NAFTA members to begin with, the effects since 1994 have been relatively small, but very largely positive. Exactly the original intent of the framers.
None of you has so far managed to utter the first intelligible word about NAFTA. You don't know what it is, how it works, or what it does. You have simply swallowed a bunch of Tea Party populist swill. In the meantime, as there weren't a lot of trade barriers between NAFTA members to begin with, the effects since 1994 have been relatively small, but very largely positive. Exactly the original intent of the framers.
Using tax money to subsidize corn which is dumped into mexico, displacing farmers is economic terrorism.
Then the displaced farmers either join the endless stream of soldiers for the cartels or come to the US where they cost us $$$$$$$$$$$ and have decimated the trades all across the nation.
Closed down factories in the US, lesser quality goods...
And to go beyond nafta and into "free" trade, the worldwide exploitation of cheap labor forces has increased the world's oil consumption and guaranteed that everything will be manufactured as cheaply, and filthily as possible.
Back to nafta though, I'm still waiting to hear what's so good about it?
And what do you actually know about NAFTA? Can you explain how the US would somehow be better off by imposing tariffs and quotas on trade with our neighbors and two largest trading partners? I dare say you can't and won't. Knee-jerk pap and slop would be all I would expect to see.
LOL! I didn't come on here crowing about what a great thing NAFTA is. I'm on the hook for exactly nothing. Those who came here claiming to know all about the pact and what a terrible and harmful thing it is have done nothing beyond posting repeated and absurd screeds of childishly deranged, paranoid, and xenophobic drivel such as the one above. The actual effects of NAFTA have been small and positive across the region. Nobody knows what the effects of the TPP will be, in part because its terms have not yet been negotiated. But somehow the screechers and worthless blabberers already know what great harm it will do. Pardon my puke at such inanity.
Hmmm. Another victim of deliberate disinformation.
While China (with ten times the number of manufacturing workers) can now claim to have edged ahead of the US in total manufacturing value added, the US remains at monster-level in the field, with a huge lead still in complex, high-end manufacturing.
What out-of-the-loopers typically don't know enough to understand anyway is that they are not actually complaining about losses of manufacturing, but about losses of manufacturing jobs. The days of dropping out of high school, putting on a hard hat, and going to work in a well-paid union job down at the mill are over. You can ask yourself how and why that came to happen, but like agriculture a century before it, manufacturing has simply lost whatever capacity it may once have had to provide jobs for the masses. While global manufacturing output has soared over the past 20 years, manufacturing employment has fallen since the mid-1990's in every one of the world's dozen major manufacturing economies. China -- far from taking "our" jobs -- has lost in two decades more manufacturing jobs than the US currently has. US losses have meanwhile been about average for the group.
Oh great. A throwback Chicom-fearing McCarthyite. Meanwhile, without the labor cost advantage provided in Asia (not just China), you couldn't afford to have the electronics that you do. There was once a time in this country when consumers were outraged by the use of "sweat-shop labor" and would simply refuse to buy goods produced in that way. Clearly that has changed in the last 20 years as well. Now people rush out to buy the latest iPhone and don't bat an eyelash at the exploitation of labor involved in its production.
Friedman was wrong. The world has always been flat. It has merely become flat over greater and greater distances of late. Once it was the next town, or the next state, or the next country, now it's approaching everywhere. This is just the way the world works. Adapt or die.
What you would like doesn't matter a fig. And your having succumbed to the recent obesity-meme provides one illustration of why.
The pinnacle of delusion.
US could never manufacture on the scale it did during WW2. We are a shell of our former glory. China can whip together a workforce in a day, complete with high skill labor and competent expertise while America tries to untangle it's debilitating red tape.
China used to be all about cheap junk. Now they make just about anything that America makes, with the same level of quality, and at a more affordable price. Buying Made in America these days is not what it used to be. We used to be about quality. Now the fixation is price, even at the expense of quality. Typical of when the bean counters achieve control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara
LOL! I didn't come on here crowing about what a great thing NAFTA is. I'm on the hook for exactly nothing. Those who came here claiming to know all about the pact and what a terrible and harmful thing it is have done nothing beyond posting repeated and absurd screeds of childishly deranged, paranoid, and xenophobic drivel such as the one above. The actual effects of NAFTA have been small and positive across the region. Nobody knows what the effects of the TPP will be, in part because its terms have not yet been negotiated. But somehow the screechers and worthless blabberers already know what great harm it will do. Pardon my puke at such inanity.
So basically, we have to pass the bill to see what's inside? Ya, we've seen this before too...
People are not as stupid as you have poorly attempted to make them out to be. Well, not the people you're trying to belittle anyways.
Ross Perot. LOL! From two years before NAFTA went into effect. LOL again!. Admitting that he was actually too dumb to understand the agreement anyway. LOL a third time!
LOL!!! You have no room to talk. You plainly lack familiarity with even the basics of the last 25-50 years of economic history. It's all just passed you by. Could have kept track, but didn't. Now you get embarrassed in public for it. Nice going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
So basically, we have to pass the bill to see what's inside? Ya, we've seen this before too...
And you COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD the point of that statement as well. Pelosi was complaining that the stupid right-wing din and cacaphony over manufactured death panels and takeover issues was making it impossible to have a sensible public discussion over what actually was in PPACA. The bill was ultimately passed more than five years ago now, and the right-wing is still completely clueless as to what's in it and what it does. Very consistent, these folks are, you have to give them that much. They basically don't understand the details of anything at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
People are not as stupid as you have poorly attempted to make them out to be. Well, not the people you're trying to belittle anyways.
It's been made pretty much clear here that some people are in fact that stupid and some even more so. Manufacturing output has soared in 20 years as manufacturing employment has fallen. NAFTA has expanded and smoothed what were already sizable and profitable trade patterns among the partners. These are simple and well-known facts. You have to work hard in order to be able to miss them.
Ross Perot. LOL! From two years before NAFTA went into effect. LOL again!. Admitting that he was actually too dumb to understand the agreement anyway. LOL a third time!
LMAO!!!!!
"They" want the population down to 500,000,000 people. You ever check out all the coffins they have stored.
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