Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You asked the question: What do you think about all these special accomodations?
I don't think they are fair to the other students. This is the same as kids playing a baseball game that neither team wins because you don't want to hurt one teams feelings. You are teaching people to accept mediocrity. Why would an "A" student try to do his best when he knows lesser student will be given an advantage and therefore will get the same good grade. I'm sorry, but life isn't always fair and by taking something from the aciever and giving it to the non-achiever you will soon make the achiever realize his effort is not nothing.
Obviously the opinion of somebody without a clue. I have three kids, all with above average intelligence. The two who have no learning disabilities wouldn't change places with their brother for anything in the world. They don't NEED extra time on tests. They understand the questions as they are written, and answer them in the allowed time. Their brother, on the other hand, struggles to figure out what the question is really asking. He may need to read it several times to be sure he gets it, hence the extra time. He knows the answers, because he is a smart kid who does the work.
With suitable accommodations, they all make the honor role. There is nothing mediocre about the efforts of somebody with a disability. On the contrary, they work twice as hard as the other kids to attain similar results.
Obviously the opinion of somebody without a clue. I have three kids, all with above average intelligence. The two who have no learning disabilities wouldn't change places with their brother for anything in the world. They don't NEED extra time on tests. They understand the questions as they are written, and answer them in the allowed time. Their brother, on the other hand, struggles to figure out what the question is really asking. He may need to read it several times to be sure he gets it, hence the extra time. He knows the answers, because he is a smart kid who does the work.
With suitable accommodations, they all make the honor role. There is nothing mediocre about the efforts of somebody with a disability. On the contrary, they work twice as hard as the other kids to attain similar results.
What happens if he wants to move onto something else where they won't accomodate him and he cannot hack it?
We're starting to get into two different discussions here.
The OP was concerned about students getting extra time to complete tests.
The purpose of a test is to measure an individual's skill or ability in an area or to measure that student's knowledge in an area.
I've worked in a few different fields in my work career, and in none of them were tests a big part of my job.
This is the reason that student's are accommodated in taking the test. The student may very well be competent in the subject being measured by the test, but if taking the test poses a problem that's something that can and should be fixed.
After that it is up to the individual (just like any individual that does not have a disability) to apply for jobs that they will be successful at or risk losing that job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok
The proof here should be in the pudding.
If individuals with disabilities are finding and retaining work that was unavailable to the them before these interventions were begun then it is absolutely the right thing to do.
No comment here betamanlet, since you seem to be the most outspoken against people being granted these accomodations?
What happens if he wants to move onto something else where they won't accomodate him and he cannot hack it?
Then they will not succeed there. But they will succeed somewhere because they were given an opportunity at an education instead of being passed by and not given the time they needed to learn and to be evaluated. Without accommodations you will never really know what disabled persons real abilities are. Not all jobs are time sensitive, and they will gravitate to jobs where their disabilities are not such a factor. What is important is that every child gets the best education we can provide, and thereby achieve to their potential. It does no one any good to have people working at minimum wage menial jobs who could be providing a more beneficial service.
A wise man once said the best thing you can do for poor people is not become one of them. We already have too many.
Then they will not succeed there. But they will succeed somewhere because they were given an opportunity at an education instead of being passed by and not given the time they needed to learn and to be evaluated. Without accommodations you will never really know what disabled persons real abilities are. Not all jobs are time sensitive, and they will gravitate to jobs where their disabilities are not such a factor. What is important is that every child gets the best education we can provide, and thereby achieve to their potential. It does no one any good to have people working at minimum wage menial jobs who could be providing a more beneficial service.
A wise man once said the best thing you can do for poor people is not become one of them. We already have too many.
Won't there be self doubt? Say a kid gets an A, but he might wonder "if I didn't have the extra time, would I have gotten that grade?"
Teens get all those accommodations in school, then go to college. Can't be too terribly 'disabled'. Some even get propped up during college. What happens when they go out into the workforce? They will have jobs to do and employers won't be holding their hands. They will be expected to tow the line all by themselves.
Parents do their children no favors by finding the least little things wrong with their kids and having them specially taught all through school. Those kids never learn how to stand on their own and make something of themselves.
Some parents do it to give their kids a boost above and beyond what everyone else gets, others do it for the check.
They go postal when life doesn't treat them FAIR. Life is not fair. Teaching kids that it is does them no favors.
Yes, it's tough to fall and scrape your knees and learn to pull yourself back up but you're going to need that skill your entire life. No one hands out paychecks like they do passing grades in school. You have to EARN your paychecks.
There are sound reasons for accommodations for K-12 students. I can also see where some accommodations may be appropriate for college students where disabilities of one sort must be mitigated in order to develop abilities of another sort. Employers (should) have the choice as to which disabilities they will accommodate in order to get the abilities that they seek in an employee.
I don't think that it is sensible or useful to try to accommodate adults when there is a clear mismatch between their ability and their desire. It seems more sensible to try to develop the abilities that remain.
Children should not have to prove themselves in the same way as adults, but once they are adults, they should have to earn their accommodations by excelling at what they are pursuing. Otherwise, they should come to grips with the basic unfairness of life.
No matter how bad off a person is, there is always someone who has it worse in the world. Americans can be thankful that accommodations are available unlike in most parts of the world.
I do agree that there are many parents who do pay professionals to diagnose their kids with ADHD. These are the college kids who are ALLOWED to have Adderall and Ritalin. They make a killing every semester if they hoard their pills until exams. The kids are ok with having extra time on assignments and SATs, even though they don't always need it.
For kids who really do need it, see above. They should have to earn their place in college by being someone who is sought after, not just earn a fancy diploma to justify getting a top job.
In my opinion, Stephen Hawking is the embodiment of this principle. He has unique qualities that make his disabilities relative. His employers make the accommodations necessary to getting the value of his abilities. It is naive to think that he would have the same quality of life that he has if he did not have those abilities.
What happens if he wants to move onto something else where they won't accomodate him and he cannot hack it?
See, that's the thing. He is a smart kid who recognizes his strengths AND his weaknesses. He is studying mechanical engineering in college, because it plays up to those strengths. He will never be an English teacher, and he knows it.
They go postal when life doesn't treat them FAIR. Life is not fair. Teaching kids that it is does them no favors.
Yes, it's tough to fall and scrape your knees and learn to pull yourself back up but you're going to need that skill your entire life. No one hands out paychecks like they do passing grades in school. You have to EARN your paychecks.
Who's complaining that it's not fair? No one with a disability is saying anything about fair? It's a guy whose nephew is getting the support that thinks it is not fair. So, if anyone needs to learn that lesson that you so want to teach it is the OP.
And as far as earning your paycheck. The student with the disability in most cases has to work much harder for the grade than the other students. These kids are doing exactly what you suggest. They are falling, and falling again, and falling again and getting back up every time they face the ignorance and prejudice that is so prevalent in this thread.
In 1990 1 in 10,000 kids were diagnosed within the Autistic spectrum, today it is closer to 1 in 100. We have poisoned our environment with heavy metals and chemicals which cause problems with brain development and now we are seeing the affects. If you have not been affected by this poisoning you should be thankful and count your blessings instead of being resentful of people who have, and are struggling.
I do not believe in any 'spectrum'. Autism is severe, I used to work with an autistic teen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustaduke
Oh it does happen all the time? Unless you are a teacher, or you are in classes everyday I doubt you know what happens all the time.
It took a lot of complaining and fighting by parents and the government getting involved before children with disabilities were giving the opportunity to get a fair education that they are initialed to.
The problem is that people like you think that with my child getting special help takes away from your child's education. It doesn't. Plus I pay taxes just like you and my child will receive an education by whatever means it takes.
It does happen every day, you posted the statistics yourself in the bolded in above quote.
I think a huge amount of so called disabilities is manufactured. I have worked in education for a lot of years and worked with children even longer. No one can convince me that because every child isn't going to sit in a chair for X amount of hours a day has something wrong with him; because every child is not the best reader that there is some disability behind it.
It isn't at all about your child taking anything away from my child. It's all about the fact that some kids have to just plain work harder, and these kids don't because they get all these extra allowances.
If time isn't a factor in tests, then ALL kids should have all the time it takes them to finish.
If reading isn't what comes easy, then they should work harder and focus on doing better in reading.
Things like that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Life is not fair. Teaching kids that it is does them no favors. 
