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We are now just printing money. And we are still spending. This isn't good. It's bad.
And thats what most liberals dont understand about things like the stock market.
If you print money which causes inflation, of course the market will go up because the value of the dolar went down, this doesnt mean we are in a recovery, it just means that everything costs more..
Well that was then, and this is now. And one must look at where it was a year ago.
No matter what you say, since Obama has been Pres., the trend has been mostly down. A slight uptick does not constitute a "surge" and it isn't good news. People have lost thousands because of Obama policies.
Really?
DOW - Jan 21 was 8228
DOW - June 3 is 8675
S&P - Jan 21 was 840
S&P - June 3 is 931
NASDAQ - Jan 21 was 1507
NASDAQ - June 3 is 1825
What kind of new math are YOU using?
The "Rush" style of math - where reality doesn't count?
LOL
The markets were on a generally downward path for around 7 weeks (except for the NASDAQ which really on a downward path for 4-5 weeks) and now the trend has been generally upward for 12 weeks or so.
So, no matter HOW you view it - either by the point change or by length of time in a particular direction, the markets have been mostly UP since Obama was sworn in - NOT "MOSTLY DOWN" as you claim.
Green bar, my return,
Blue one, DJIA, As you can see, even though the $ figure of DJIA is up, its monthly performance is awful. Its not an indicator of the economy
Green bar, my return,
Blue one, DJIA, As you can see, even though the $ figure of DJIA is up, its monthly performance is awful. Its not an indicator of the economy
Sure, that's because he inherited it while it was on the way down - and had been going down for a full year.
Where did I argue that the market hadn't done poorly as the started?
How's it done the last 3 months (since it bottomed out)?
Sure, that's because he inherited it while it was on the way down - and had been going down for a full year.
Because thats what cycles do, they go down, they go up, they go down, they go up. (yes, they will always end up going up due to inflation and especially in the USA due to the depreciating dollar)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor
Where did I argue that the market hadn't done poorly as the started?
Where did I claim you made such argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor
How's it done the last 3 months (since it bottomed out)
You need to connect the argument that an increased DJIA = an increased economy, in order for money to enter the economy, they actually need to be removed from the stock market, thereby putting a downward pressure on the DJIA. A good economy is only indicated when money is removed from the market but the upward momentum of the stocks (such as the DJIA ) continues. Currently if people remove money from the market, it wont maintian the current levels because the underline companies on the DJIA are doing poorly.
One also can not ignore the fact that investors have no where else to go, bonds, cds, for example are paying almost zero profit after inflation is factored in. Since they have no where else to turn, the market will climb, while other investments fall. Overall, just looking at the market only is no indication of the overall economy.
If I recall, (and I could have just dreamed this up) the market during the great depression, after the crash did ok, that doesnt mean the economy was doing fine..
PLEAAAAAASE let the market get back to close to its' original high before we actually have to PAY for all the programs and spending the Messiah is enacting so I can move my retirement money to a savings account!!! When the bill becomes due we are going to get CRUSHED.....China is licking its' chops over the BILLIONS of dollars in interest we now owe them. The dollar will be worth NOTHING!!!
Since NO ONE trades on the DJIA, or the SP500, (ok, maybe some HUGE Investment bankers might) the figures are MEANINGLESS. I know its tough for you to understand, but someday you might, let me try to explain it to you.
Claiming the average price of 100 items in a grocery store went up, is meaningless because NO ONE is going to buy all 100 items, they might buy 4-5 of the items on that list, but grocery stores have thousands of items, just like the stock market, and just because the price of those 100 items gone up, it doesnt mean that the other items went up, or that "the economy is recovering", especially if those 100 items were on sale for the last few months when you were running reports.
All the DJIA going up means, is that previously the companies were over sold, i.e. prices were to low. To equate a higher DJIA to a recovering economy is just false without analizing the financial strength of the underlying companies, and that includes sales revenue and profits.
If you still dont understand, then I'd hate to be making budgets in your household.
p.s. I dont usually trade stocks, I insure other peoples stocks, and people are paying a huge premium due to the current administration and their policies.. trust me, I'm not at all upset, my profit margins are through the roof
Two issues with your above response:
#1. You have a strange tendency to completely avoid the topic of the post, and then answer questions that weren't even asked.
#2. You seem to always want to brag about your Stock Portfolio. Do you ever notice anyone else doing this in the Politics forum?
Regarding the DJIA ....
The DJIA is the most often used number by Wall Street and Financial News as a measurement of how well the U.S. stock market is doing.
It is a formula derived from the stock prices of the 30 select large-cap U.S. companies which make up the Dow. It is not simply a sum of their current individual prices, but a weighted average of each individual company. So it takes into account stock splits, etc.
When economic news is good, as was the case on Monday June 1st, stock traders typically buy stocks. When news is bad, they sell.
When traders are in a buying mood, they also purchase the companies which are part of the Dow, so the DJIA is a reflection of how the market did as a whole. It's not exact, since there are other Wall Street numbers that can show different sets of companies, such as the SP500, Nasdaq, etc. but the DJIA is the most often used number when discussing how the stock market did that day, or how it has been doing on a monthly and annual basis.
The DJIA also is a reflection of the state of the economy. When the number is much lower than it has been in the past, then the companies making up the Dow are likely suffering from business issues, and likely laying off workers. When the number is much higher, the opposite would be true.
The DJIA also is a reflection of the value of individual savings and retirement accounts, since many people have their investments in DJIA companies.
That is the DJIA in a nutshell.
Regarding my previous post ... since you refuse to simply admit that you were wrong about why the market went up 2.79% on Monday, I will just drop the subject. I am no longer interested in replying to responses which go way off the subject, just to avoid saying you were wrong.
Well that was then, and this is now. And one must look at where it was a year ago.
No matter what you say, since Obama has been Pres., the trend has been mostly down. A slight uptick does not constitute a "surge" and it isn't good news. People have lost thousands because of Obama policies.
This is the Obama economy. It isn't going to get better. All predictions are that things are going to get much worse.
We are now just printing money. And we are still spending. This isn't good. It's bad.
You are so off base it's not funny !!!
People have lost nothing from Obama's policies. If anything they lost the majority of their money while Bush was still in office.
When Obama took office on Jan 20, the stock market was at roughly 7,900.
It continued to drop for the next month, and by mid March, it was around 6,500.
Then, ever since mid March, we have seen a constant rise in the market.
Nearly every week, and every single month since then, it has showed gains.
The market has climbed 2,000 points since it's March low, and today it is approximately 8,675.
If you want to go back a year ago, fine, but who was President during that period when it fell from 14,100 (Oct 2007) to 7,900 (Jan 2009)?
When Bush was still President ... the market kept sinking like a led ballon.
Since Obama has taken office ... the market has turned around, and the economy is showing signs of stability.
Jobs are still being lost, but that will eventually turn around as well.
One thing at a time.
As people continue to invest in the stock market, companies will regain the capitalization they need to increase their business, and hire more employees.
However, there are still plenty of nasty leftovers from the Bush era, that have yet to rear their ugly heads, such as more foreclosures. These homes were purchased several years ago, and once their ARMs reset to higher interest rates, and people cant afford to pay their mortgages, they may end up in foreclosure.
So the economy may take some time to recover,and Obama still has a lot of work ahead of him in fixing the damage Bush left behind.
#1. You have a strange tendency to completely avoid the topic of the post, and then answer questions that weren't even asked.
I didnt answer a question not asked, I posted opinions and information to back my opinion, this is a public forum and thats allowed as long as I tie it back to the original thread..
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
#2. You seem to always want to brag about your Stock Portfolio. Do you ever notice anyone else doing this in the Politics forum?
Ask me if I care, do you see the Title of the TOPIC? I compared my return to the DJIA to show how unimportant it is and how poorly its actually doing. Which actually disputes how upset I am...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
Regarding the DJIA ....
The DJIA is the most often used number by Wall Street and Financial News as a measurement of how well the U.S. stock market is doing.
Yes, as an indication as to how the market is doing, not the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
When economic news is good, as was the case on Monday June 1st, stock traders typically buy stocks. When news is bad, they sell.
Wrong, people buy stocks on rumors and speculation, they sell on facts and reports. In addition, stock purchases and sell off cycles do not run beginning of the month to the end, they run the 3rd Sunday of the month to the 3rd Saturday. They also are very volatile every 3rd month on the 3rd Friday of each month (such as June 19th will be such a date). This is due to the option cicles that most stocks on the DJIA have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
When traders are in a buying mood, they also purchase the companies which are part of the Dow, so the DJIA is a reflection of how the market did as a whole.
Again yes, but not the economy. If it was an indicator of the economy then explain to me why many of the companies on the DJIA are doing worse than they did last year but their stocks are going up? (answer, because they are doing better than expected, but worse, again, they were sold off because of rumors that they will do bad, they are being bought back when reports indicate that the companies are not doing as bad as previously anticipated, but this does not mean the economy is good)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
The DJIA also is a reflection of the state of the economy. When the number is much lower than it has been in the past, then the companies making up the Dow are likely suffering from business issues, and likely laying off workers. When the number is much higher, the opposite would be true.
That all depends on what analysis were expecting. Often times laying off employees cause a stock value to increase (note the DJIA for example) because it means companies have lower liabilities and thereby can increase profitability for the stock holders. Just because stocks are rising it doesnt mean the economy is good, it means that there are investors expectation that in the future, the companies will become profitable. Often times a companies stock going up means the economy is bad because of the number of layoffs which have taken place. Again, just because the market is increasing, this does not mean the economy is..
Quote:
Originally Posted by RD5050
The DJIA also is a reflection of the value of individual savings and retirement accounts, since many people have their investments in DJIA companies.
Here you are correct, however in order to have spendable income, i.e. to improve the economy, money needs to come out of the stock market to become spent, which of course causes a downward pressure on the stock. See my previous thread where I discussed this.
Last edited by pghquest; 06-03-2009 at 08:07 PM..
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