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The first time I remember seeing a Roma was a few years back in Ukraine. There was this little girl about nine or so going round a crowd of people at a railway station begging for money. I just said no and thought nothing of it until a minute or so later I heard a man shouting, so I turned towards him just in time to see him smacking that same girl across the face, while a couple of police officers who saw the whole thing just stood there and did nothing. I was horrified at the time, but nowadays though I'd still find the idea of a grown man smacking a little girl really distasteful I'd see where he was coming from if he'd been living amongst these people all his life. Unfortunately they make it so easy for people to dislike them.
I always found this Irish Travelers stuff very weird. The British Empire conquered and brought the British living standards to distant places all over the world, but they never managed to integrate this people in mainstream society,and Ireland is just next to Britain.
This people is local Irish people, so they were there in that little island from the start but somehow managed to dodge all sorts of mainstream influence and they keep living in 2013 like they lived since the invention of the wheel. In fact, imagine EVERYBODY lived like them? Human life on planet Earth would become extinguished in a few generations, no farming, no industry,no technology,no arts and science....wait a second, I think I read about this, they called it "stone age".
It's just weird if you think about it.
I guess those guys are an anthropologist wet dream.
PS. I just think it's weird,from anthropological point of view, not that I like or dislake them. And it's weird because they are not Roma Gypsies. Roma came from northen India, a LONG way from Europe, so Roman people could use this as an excuse for their underachieving status, like "the people with no land, always in foreign land",etc.
BUT what excuse could Irish Travelers have? They have the same race than Anglos, (most of them have blonde hair and blue eyes) they live in the same land their ancestors did (I mean those living in Ireland or the UK), they speak English as their mother tongue (while so many inmigrants in the UK struggle to learn it), there's no way you could tell the difference between an Irish Traveler in a suit,carrying a suitcase and a Wall Street yuppie (both of them shaven and the same haircut). They have cities like London, Manchester, Glasgow or Dublin jut a few hours by train, free education, free healthcare, lot' of jobs , lot's of opportunities waiting for them, it's not like they have to worry about passports, or id cards, or citizenships, because they already have them, they are as Irish or as English,as anybody else
But even with all this advantages that 95 per cent of the world population could no even dream of, they still don´t make it.
Meanwhile single mothers in Nigeria, Colombia, Pakistan (or any third world hellhole) work their butts off to feed their babies and give them a better future,and they make it. People with AIDS in Africa fight every day for survival,and many of them make it. In every single third world country theres many people who make it, and they don´t have any help from the goverment, no free education, no free healthcare. But they make it, look Pele, look Samuel Ettoo, they were black street street children, look all those entrepreneurs in third world countries who start little business and little by little make it. Not to meantion illegal aliens in Europe or America who don´t speak a word of English, working 20 hours a day, 7 day a week in a sweatshop to send some money home.
So I don´t really feel any pity for those "Irish Travelers " guys...they are in the gutter because they want.
I always found this Irish Travelers stuff very weird. The British Empire conquered and brought the British living standards to distant places all over the world, but they never managed to integrate this people in mainstream society,and Ireland is just next to Britain.
This people is local Irish people, so they were there in that little island from the start but somehow managed to dodge all sorts of mainstream influence and they keep living in 2013 like they lived since the invention of the wheel. In fact, imagine EVERYBODY lived like them? Human life on planet Earth would become extinguished in a few generations, no farming, no industry,no technology,no arts and science....wait a second, I think I read about this, they called it "stone age".
It's just weird if you think about it.
I guess those guys are an anthropologist wet dream.
yes , it was very nice of the empire to raise the living standards of those living in kenya , india , etc to that of birmingham and edinburgh
they never took any of the africans fine china back home with them either
BUT what excuse could Irish Travelers have? They have the same race than Anglos, (most of them have blonde hair and blue eyes) they live in the same land their ancestors did (I mean those living in Ireland or the UK), they speak English as their mother tongue (while so many inmigrants in the UK struggle to learn it), there's no way you could tell the difference between an Irish Traveler in a suit,carrying a suitcase and a Wall Street yuppie (both of them shaven and the same haircut). They have cities like London, Manchester, Glasgow or Dublin jut a few hours by train, free education, free healthcare, lot' of jobs , lot's of opportunities waiting for them, it's not like they have to worry about passports, or id cards, or citizenships, because they already have them, they are as Irish or as English,as anybody else
Not entirely true, Javier.
Irish Travellers are definitely not considered to be the same as "Anglos" (I presume you mean the "English"). They are Irish. In the UK they are legally considered a separate ethnic minority even from the Irish (ie. the "white" ethnicities you can choose on the census are English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Irish Traveller, and Other). In Ireland itself I don't believe they are classified as an 'ethnic' minority but as a social/cultural one.
Historically Irish Travellers did not speak English as their mother tongue. They had their own language, called Shelta, which was closely related to Irish Gaelic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
I don't believe it is spoken in its pure form by many people anymore, nowadays Travellers speak a very distinct dialect of English with influences and words from their old language – which can be totally unintelligible to outsiders. Even when speaking standard English they have a very distinct accent that is not easy to hide – they can be distinguished the moment they open their mouths.
Basically your point about the Irish Travellers being lazy and useless because they seemingly have all the opportunities afforded of them as UK/Irish citizens is not true. Anyone who knows anything about this community will know that they face a huge amount of discrimination in the fields of employment, education etc within in the UK. The paradox is that it is far easier for a black or Asian immigrant with hardly any English to become integrated over time in Britain than it is for an Irish Traveller to do the same. The fact that they have been living on the same soil as the English and settled Irish etc for centuries hardly comes into it.
Basically your point about the Irish Travellers being lazy and useless because they seemingly have all the opportunities afforded of them as UK/Irish citizens is not true. Anyone who knows anything about this community will know that they face a huge amount of discrimination in the fields of employment, education etc within in the UK. The paradox is that it is far easier for a black or Asian immigrant with hardly any English to become integrated over time in Britain than it is for an Irish Traveller to do the same. The fact that they have been living on the same soil as the English and settled Irish etc for centuries hardly comes into it.
How are they discriminated against in education? Will some schools refuse to teach them? Or is it because they tend to move about and thus a child will not remain in a school for any length of time? Could it be the root of their problems is in poor lifestyle choices and not discrimination?
Like I stated on an earlier post, it seems they are discriminated against because of their lifestyle, and their lifestyle is a result of their being discriminated against. That is called circular logic or begging the question, which is a logical fallacy.
I know quite alot of Irish travellers and many of them are as sharp as a razor when it comes to making money.
Not all of them are feckless layabouts it's just that the ones that are tend to be the ones you notice. The more restrained ones tend to just blend into the background at the back of the pub and are decent law abiding citizens.
Like the criminal element in any community or hooligans at football matches (less a problem in 2013) these are the types that tend to stick out in large crowds.
Most of the ones I know work though I dare say there is a significant proportion involved in criminality. Many of them lay tarmac too.
There are also Romany traveller families in the UK who have been here for generations. When I was in Bournemouth and Poole I noticed the prevalence of this community on the south coast.
As for the "wouldn't be able to tell a yuppie from an Irish traveller" line. Stop with the comedy.
I could spot a traveller from a native Irishman at 100 yards never mind a Yuppified city fat cat.
I am of an age when i can remember true Gypsies, they would park in country lanes with caravans drawn by horses. They made wooden clothes pegs and would sell them door to door, the women would offer to tell your fortune. There were no benefits to be had in those days. Today's "travelers" have no relevance to those people whatsoever.
Irish Travellers are definitely not considered to be the same as "Anglos" (I presume you mean the "English"). They are Irish. In the UK they are legally considered a separate ethnic minority even from the Irish (ie. the "white" ethnicities you can choose on the census are English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Irish Traveller, and Other). In Ireland itself I don't believe they are classified as an 'ethnic' minority but as a social/cultural one.
Historically Irish Travellers did not speak English as their mother tongue. They had their own language, called Shelta, which was closely related to Irish Gaelic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
I don't believe it is spoken in its pure form by many people anymore, nowadays Travellers speak a very distinct dialect of English with influences and words from their old language – which can be totally unintelligible to outsiders. Even when speaking standard English they have a very distinct accent that is not easy to hide – they can be distinguished the moment they open their mouths.
Basically your point about the Irish Travellers being lazy and useless because they seemingly have all the opportunities afforded of them as UK/Irish citizens is not true. Anyone who knows anything about this community will know that they face a huge amount of discrimination in the fields of employment, education etc within in the UK. The paradox is that it is far easier for a black or Asian immigrant with hardly any English to become integrated over time in Britain than it is for an Irish Traveller to do the same. The fact that they have been living on the same soil as the English and settled Irish etc for centuries hardly comes into it.
I appreciate this post, your points are excellent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear&Whiskey
I know quite alot of Irish travellers and many of them are as sharp as a razor when it comes to making money.
Not all of them are feckless layabouts it's just that the ones that are tend to be the ones you notice. The more restrained ones tend to just blend into the background at the back of the pub and are decent law abiding citizens.
Like the criminal element in any community or hooligans at football matches (less a problem in 2013) these are the types that tend to stick out in large crowds.
Most of the ones I know work though I dare say there is a significant proportion involved in criminality. Many of them lay tarmac too.
There are also Romany traveller families in the UK who have been here for generations. When I was in Bournemouth and Poole I noticed the prevalence of this community on the south coast.
As for the "wouldn't be able to tell a yuppie from an Irish traveller" line. Stop with the comedy.
I could spot a traveller from a native Irishman at 100 yards never mind a Yuppified city fat cat.
Also a positive note- Very well said
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