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Old 02-04-2014, 11:54 AM
 
1,600 posts, read 1,889,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Some sources claim that 40-50% of all German military deaths happened between D-day and VE-day, due to Hitler's "no retreat or surrender" policy.

In reality it was just a retreating bloodshed.
Which means that out of approximately 5 millions of German military deaths, 2,5 millions occurred between 6 June 1944 and 7th May 1945.
According to Overmans between those days there were 2,752,476 deaths out of 5,518,000 which means more or less 50.0047 %.

 
Old 02-09-2014, 03:23 PM
 
10 posts, read 16,610 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiffrace View Post
First of all, some US Americans don't like France and the French at all.
They are typically right-wing yahoos who know nothing about the world in general, and Europe and France in particular (how could they, they never leave Kansas, and read nothing but their "holy book")
France is a country with anti-clerical attitude and strong socialist tendencies. Those 2 things are enough to enrage US right wingers, people who are "quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand" [Rush - Moving Pictures], and whose ideology is formed by a few slogans they hear on Faux "News".

Now, on to the subject of alleged French "cowardice". As you correctly pointed out, France has a long and impressive military history, from Vercingetorix to Charlemagne to Napoleon to Foch. France fought heroically, and suffered horrendous losses as recently as WWI. What happened after WWI is interesting. The hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed French soldiers caused a shell-shock, or "post traumatic stress disorder" to use watered-down current name, on a national scale.
It appears that when Germans invaded in 1940, the majority of the French did not want to go through the WWI suffering and losses again. The surprise of German panzer divisions invading Belgium and Holland to circumvent the Maginot Line added to the overall effect. While France did fight a little in 1940, it was far less it should and could have, considering its resources.
It also must be added that not all the French were happy with the quick surrender.
General Charles de Gaulle left the country to form the Free French Forces.
Thanks to his courage, France ended the war along the Russia, US and Britain in the camp of the victors, not alongside the defeated Germany and Japan.

To be fair, General Charles de Gaulle could be a pain in the ass for America and England. And President Charles de Gaulle was even worse.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 01:15 AM
 
579 posts, read 762,261 times
Reputation: 617
In American History books, global history starts in 1776. Since then France has a poor military record.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 01:39 AM
 
847 posts, read 1,180,249 times
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Quote:
English began moving to France in decent numbers shortly after the Bourbons
I read that even before, in 18th century, France imported a lot of specialists on manufacturing and banking from England.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 10:25 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,079,621 times
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France was defeated by their own politicians (Renault, Pacifists, Front Popoulaire), not by Germans.
Great Britain had similar politicians (Chamberlain), but it was an island.
It would have been interesting to check how valiant the British were as a continental nation....if we take into consideration Dunkirk....they would have lasted far less than France.
So when Germans were threatening France, the country was sharply divided.
WWI left a jaded and tired country, and the middle class was "protofascist" (scared of communists and socialists and looking for a military figure).

Last edited by Miserere; 04-24-2014 at 10:34 AM..
 
Old 04-24-2014, 10:28 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,079,621 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Some sources claim that 40-50% of all German military deaths happened between D-day and VE-day, due to Hitler's "no retreat or surrender" policy.

In reality it was just a retreating bloodshed.

Yes, from Stalingrad onwards...a bloody retreat.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 12:02 PM
 
579 posts, read 762,261 times
Reputation: 617
D-Day.....no effect on the War. Nazis were already defeated

Western propaganda.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,737 posts, read 3,165,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserere View Post
France was defeated by their own politicians (Renault, Pacifists, Front Popoulaire), not by Germans.

Great Britain had similar politicians (Chamberlain), but it was an island.

It would have been interesting to check how valiant the British were as a continental nation....if we take into consideration Dunkirk....they would have lasted far less than France.

So when Germans were threatening France, the country was sharply divided.

WWI left a jaded and tired country, and the middle class was "protofascist" (scared of communists and socialists and looking for a military figure).
Britain itself was being attacked when Chamberlain sought appeasement, and the British Expeditionary Force did retreat via Dunkirk, but it should be noted that Britain at the time was largely a Naval Power with the largest Navy in the world rather than a land power like Germany or France.

Britain fought bravely, as I am sure many French people also did, and the French had a very effective and often overlooked resistance made up of some incredible brave individuals.
 
Old 04-24-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,899 posts, read 5,796,624 times
Reputation: 1930
@The OP: I suppose from The Simpsons' "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" quote, as well as from France's quick defeat in 1940.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 08:26 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,079,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamford View Post
Britain itself was being attacked when Chamberlain sought appeasement, and the British Expeditionary Force did retreat via Dunkirk, but it should be noted that Britain at the time was largely a Naval Power with the largest Navy in the world rather than a land power like Germany or France.

Britain fought bravely, as I am sure many French people also did, and the French had a very effective and often overlooked resistance made up of some incredible brave individuals.

The French resistance was insignificant and very minoritary, many of them were foreigners (Spanish) and most were communists, far from the mainstream of the French society.

Germans found a divided country, and many found that the likes of Leon Blum were more dangerous than German soldiers.
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