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I bet patient 0 was working in that understaffed Wuhan lab. All it takes is one bat flying out of the cage or wherever they keep them in...Or that worker breaking the vial or removing/reusing PPE in a hurry, touching his face.. and voila - the whole world's average life span is going down...
Did you miss the bit, that the animals used for lab research were later sold at that Wuhan market?
( Not all of them, obviously, but there were known cases.)
Did you miss the bit, that the animals used for lab research were later sold at that Wuhan market?
( Not all of them, obviously, but there were known cases.)
Yes, I did miss it (can you send me a link, please, as it is unbelievable to me). Level 4 my foot.. but, after seeing the pictures you shared I stopped reading and became vegetarian (again) right after that post.
It is absolutely disgusting.
Not. This is a mistake of your special services. They must know the possibilities of medicine in your country and make a decision to close borders with dangerous countries. Your government did not want to stop communication with other countries, did not provide quarantine for arrivals, although it could do so. China did not hide information about the virus and its properties.
I think, you're not right. China published the virus genome on January 12. It is very fast for such cases.
In Russia, military and Federal Service for Supervision of Consumer Rights Protection and Human Well-being (Rospotrebnadzor) are involved in the solution of viral safety. In the US, it is CDC. This is their job and their mistakes.
Didn't I say Christmas?
Nearly 3 weeks could have made a huge difference.
Not fast enough.
Nobody is arguing about what should have been done.
Hindsight is 20/20
I would be surprised if Trump will win November election.
“But scientists don’t rule out that an accident at a research laboratory in Wuhan might have spread a deadly bat virus that had been collected for scientific study…. Less than 300 yards from the seafood market is the Wuhan branch of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. Researchers from that facility and the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology have posted articles about collecting bat coronaviruses from around China, for study to prevent future illness. Did one of those samples leak, or was hazardous waste deposited in a place where it could spread?” - wrote Ignatius, who is well-sourced within the national security apparatus
(Vanity Fair)
Anyway, in January I thought "poor Chinese people"...
Today, as it is crawling closer to home: "They (Chinese government) should pay for this, they (Chinese government) have blood on their hands."
Why? Not for originating it, but for misinformation, misleading, covering up, etc. that lead to this disaster.
Actually, we have no idea how any other country would react and how fast they would reveal the story to the public. A good example is the ski resort in Austria where the locals kept it quiet for over a week, to keep the business going...
The Austrian media has accused Ischgl business owners of wilfully spreading the virus by prioritizing tourism takings over public health.
Not. This is a mistake of your special services. They must know the possibilities of medicine in your country and make a decision to close borders with dangerous countries. Your government did not want to stop communication with other countries, did not provide quarantine for arrivals, although it could do so. China did not hide information about the virus and its properties.
Really Maxim?
So what happened to Russia then? Did Russia close the borders with "dangerous countries?"
Such as Italy for example, or Germany? Or were the Russians ( and other Europeans) still coming from there in droves to Sheremetievo, unscreened and unchecked, just because they were not the "Chinese?"
Remember him - the first identified case in Moscow?
Did David Berov arrive from China, or was he a Chinese national? Not in a slightest. A soccer player, he simply spent his vacation in Italy. And Italy is full of Chinese tourists, ( as practically any other European country,) half of which were probably already the carriers of the CV. Why? Because when the virus WAS ALREADY SPREADING in WUHAN, thousands of people left it for the New Year celebration. They went to Europe, they went to US, they went to Canada and so on. Some as tourists, some were returning students, some went to visit families in different international locations and etc. Some were Chinese nationals, some carried different passports.
So what "borders" do you close exactly in this situation? With what countries?
if Russia couldn't shut down or control its only major international airport, what can be said about such major international hubs as Los Angeles, New York, Sea-Tac?
So which flights ( with gazillion people on them) do you shut down, which ones do you screen and for what exactly?
Did you miss the bit, that the animals used for lab research were later sold at that Wuhan market?
( Not all of them, obviously, but there were known cases.)
Are you sure, that it is not fake? Spending millions of dollars on a laboratory and selling biological material on the market... It looks very dumb.
Yes, I did miss it (can you send me a link, please, as it is unbelievable to me). Level 4 my foot.. but, after seeing the pictures you shared I stopped reading and became vegetarian (again) right after that post.
It is absolutely disgusting.
"Last night, Anthony Bellotti, president of the US pressure group White Coat Waste, condemned his government for spending tax dollars in China, adding: 'Animals infected with viruses or otherwise sickened and abused in Chinese labs reportedly may be sold to wet markets for consumption once experiments are done.'"
"And then there is this little-known fact: Some Chinese researchers are in the habit of selling their laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them.
You heard me right.
Instead of properly disposing of infected animals by cremation, as the law requires, they sell them on the side to make a little extra cash. Or, in some cases, a lot of extra cash. One Beijing researcher, now in jail, made a million dollars selling his monkeys and rats on the live animal market, where they eventually wound up in someone’s stomach."
Are you sure, that it is not fake? Spending millions of dollars on a laboratory and selling biological material on the market... It looks very dumb.
The problem is, Maxim, that you project YOUR WAY OF THINKING onto the Chinese.
I know certain viewpoint quite common in Russia, how "smart Chinese are," that they "went the right way" about capitalism, vs Russia, that took the "wrong rout" and that's why as the direct result of it, China is a technologically well-advanced country by now, while Russia is "left behind."
Those who share this point of view are clueless what they are talking about, and how medieval China really is, in spite of all that know-how, that was brought to China by Americans, which the Chinese basically cloned.
But the medieval mentality "money above any safety measures" is still there.
And hence the only way the Communist government can deal with it - the bullet in the head, when the subordinates corruption stands on the GOVERNMENT's ( those on top) way to increase its riches and power. ( Which in turn excites some Russians under the current circumstances.)
"Last night, Anthony Bellotti, president of the US pressure group White Coat Waste, condemned his government for spending tax dollars in China, adding: 'Animals infected with viruses or otherwise sickened and abused in Chinese labs reportedly may be sold to wet markets for consumption once experiments are done.'"
"And then there is this little-known fact: Some Chinese researchers are in the habit of selling their laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them.
You heard me right.
Instead of properly disposing of infected animals by cremation, as the law requires, they sell them on the side to make a little extra cash. Or, in some cases, a lot of extra cash. One Beijing researcher, now in jail, made a million dollars selling his monkeys and rats on the live animal market, where they eventually wound up in someone’s stomach."
"Other sources told CNN that the US intelligence hasn’t been able to corroborate the theory, but is trying to discern whether someone was infected in the lab through an accident or poor handling of materials and may have then infected others."
"Past concerns: The Washington Post reported on State Department cables from 2018 demonstrating concerns about the safety and the management of the Wuhan Institute of Virology biolab."
There was something Bettafish mentioned in one of his posts... something about the reverse process/reconstruction ( at least partial) during those experiments on bats and their viruses.
And that's when I remembered about those sold animals, and stopped excluding lab from the possible connection to the virus.
But I can't find either that thread any longer to quote the excerpt from the article exactly, or my own comments on that thread.
Really Maxim?
So what happened to Russia then? Did Russia close the borders with "dangerous countries?"
Such as Italy for example, or Germany? Or were the Russians ( and other Europeans) still coming from there in droves to Sheremetievo, unscreened and unchecked, just because they were not the "Chinese?"
Remember him - the first identified case in Moscow?
Did David Berov arrive from China, or was he a Chinese national? Not in a slightest. A soccer player, he simply spent his vacation in Italy. And Italy is full of Chinese tourists, ( as practically any other European country,) half of which were probably already the carriers of the CV. Why? Because when the virus WAS ALREADY SPREADING in WUHAN, thousands of people left it for the New Year celebration. They went to Europe, they went to US, they went to Canada and so on. Some as tourists, some were returning students, some went to visit families in different international locations and etc. Some were Chinese nationals, some carried different passports.
So what "borders" do you close exactly in this situation? With what countries?
if Russia couldn't shut down or control its only major international airport, what can be said about such major international hubs as Los Angeles, New York, Sea-Tac?
So which flights ( with gazillion people on them) do you shut down, which ones do you screen and for what exactly?
What countries become "dangerous" at this point?
Still think it's a "mistake of special services?"
Russia also did not block air traffic with other countries and did not provide 100% quarantine for arriving people. Many people in Russia ask each other the question "why?". Perhaps 2 options.
1. They did not want to close the sky, because they have no balls. Many officials and large businessmen and their children were abroad and they did not want to enter quarantine. Because they got scared.
2. They understood that this is not a plague or smallpox, it is a SARS. With minimal mortality. Therefore, tactics of stretching timing of infection of a large number of people and introduction of medical reserves was chosen.
Russia and the United States have followed the same path (like most countries in the world). But let's not blame Chinese and their laboratory. I know how the Washington Post, the New York Times and other Western media write about Russia and I am very skeptical about their "investigations". I think they write about China the same way. Chinese are not to blame, our special services are to blame. They work for our security (each country has its own services, but the principles are similar), they chose a tactics of combating the epidemic (they understood a possible number of victims), they knew all the necessary information about the virus and they are responsible for it. Not China, not WHO, not aliens and not reptilians. They are. No matter how our governments and their media try (or will try) to convince us otherwise.
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