Growing palm trees and other (sub)tropical plants up north. (landscaping, Ivy)

[z5apalms]

Hi Everyone,

My name is Adam, and I live in Ottawa, Ontario, which is a zone5a and I have growing here outside through our cold and hash winters; yucca rostrata, canna lilies, musa basjoo, trachycarpus fortunei, and a sabal minor, and here is what they have gone through so far. So far the coldest recorded is -14C/6.8F with -24C/-11.2F with the wind chill. The Calla lilies are still alive, and covered with leaves and a upside-down pot containing the leaves. The banana tree is done the same way, and so is the sabal minor, and a Livistona chinensis and which are all still alive. My trachycarpus fortunie is wrapped up in burlap, stuffed with leaves, and mulch, and still has an opening. and that one is still green as well.

[Need_affordable_home]

If the coldest its gotten was 7 degrees than I am not supprised that your palms survived. Ive read reports of them surviving as cold as -10 for short periods of time. I highly doubt your area is zone 5a, im guessing more like 6a to 6b. Zone 5a has an average annual minimum of -20 and your area has never even gone to zero!

[bmurphy]

You shouldn't tell someone from a map what their zone is. They do live there. They would know more then someone looking at a map.

[Need_affordable_home]

I can tell the zone by averaging the annual minimum temperatures. Oil city can get into the minuses, if 7 degrees was the coldest hes experienced then Oil city gets colder and Oil city is still zone 7a His zone may be even higher but I find that hard to believe as his latitude is alot more north

[bmurphy]

I have a question, what's with these zones? Most people don't know them by heart so why should we refer to them? I mean, off the top of their head most people cannot tell you what zone 9a entails.

More appropriate would be calling a cold zone humid continental, for example.

[Need_affordable_home]

Each zone corresponds to the average annual minimum temperatures. Zone 1 gets below -50, zone 2 gets to -50, zone 3 gets to -40, etc. The b's are for 5 degrees so zone 7b has an average minimum of 5 degrees. Oil city has not fallen below -7 since 1990 so I should be able to grow cold hardy palms there.

[bmurphy]

I know what they are. I said most people don't know them by heart.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by Need_affordable_home

Each zone corresponds to the average annual minimum temperatures. Zone 1 gets below -50, zone 2 gets to -50, zone 3 gets to -40, etc. The b's are for 5 degrees so zone 7b has an average minimum of 5 degrees. Oil city has not fallen below -7 since 1990 so I should be able to grow cold hardy palms there.

The records might be inaccurate. On paper, Environment Canada said Toronto's airport has never been below -31 C. (-25 F ?)

However I've seen many days over the years with FORECAST LOWS at -35 C or colder. I know for a fact that I've seen maybe 3-4 days with lows between -38 C and -40 C.

We planted hardy rhododendrons, hardy to -25 F and they only lasted 3 years before being totally annihilated.

z5apalms: I'm totally stunned that you can overwinter those plants. Ottawa is way colder than Toronto. You might be considered zone 5a now, but that's because of the newer maps. I think on the previous maps Ottawa was a brutal zone 4a. Toronto was 5b, but now it might be 6a.

I'm also confused by the temps you're talking about. The coldest you've been is -14 C? In southern Ontario, we've had daytime maximums only reaching -14 C these past few weeks. We've already been down to -20 C for an overnight low in Toronto.

[ColdCanadian]

Originally Posted by cil

And you don't have to leave Florida to experience them, plenty of oaks dripping with Spanish moss up north.

I agree they look great, but Spanish Moss does not grow in the North.
(but will grow north of Florida)
It's northernmost range is extreme southeastern Virginia. You will not find it in central NC, "Upcountry" SC, North GA, TN etc.

I do have some favorite "Northern trees." Mine are hemlock, oaks, hickorys, mulberrys, big-leaf basswood, sugar maple (brilliant fall colour), tulip tree, sweet gum, (might not be hardy in parts of PA) buckeyes, cherry, and crabapple. Of them, I like sweet gum, oak and cherry the best.

As far as native ranges for palm trees, NC is the furthest north for any native palms. Again, you will not see palm trees even in Raleigh, only 3 hours from the coast.

NAH if you want to live somewhere palms or Spanish Moss grow easily, (and somewhat naturally) there's no escaping summer heat and humidity, like living in or near the foothills of the southern Appalachians. You'd have to live in the hotter parts of NC, SC, GA etc.

I also strongly doubt you'd see any palms in Atlanta; however within an hour or so south of there I've seen pictures of palms... But surprise, surprise they're only growing in areas that have even hotter summers than Atlanta.

[FLPL75]

just a bit of trivia
did you know the color of the Spanish moss tells you what the air quality is in the area, the greener it is the cleaner the air