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I think of the Irish as WASCs - White Anglo-Saxon Catholics. I think the discrimination was perpetrated by the English over religious lines. Thus far, the U.S. has had one Catholic President. I think that, in 2012, there are still a lot of Protestants for whom Catholics are "weird."
I knew quite a few Irish people growing up. I would describe them as friendly enough, but not rowdy...unless they had been drinking. I think there's a big difference between Irish Catholics and Mediterranean/Latino Catholics.
During a Spring Break in grad school, a Catholic girl asked me to help her drive home to her parents' house in another state, and I went. The mother was Irish Catholic and kind of uptight. I was telling a story at the dinner table, and unconsciously said "p!$$ed off" in describing the interactions in the story. Before bedtime, this girl came into the guest room and said that, while she was doing dishes with her Mom, the Mom told her I had said "p!$$ed off" 3 TIMES. I thought to myself, "Your daddy makes good money, why doesn't he get me an air ticket back?" Sheez! My parents would have just laughed. We always told jokes at the dinner table.
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 03-14-2012 at 05:21 PM..
Because the Irish could see the little people, an no one else could. My maternal great grandparents were Irish. They didn't take guff from anyone, and were helpful to those in need.
Most Irish and Irish descent people (at least the ones I know) have a great sense of humor, very sarcastic even. They don't take anything too seriously. Maybe that is why I do not get along with people who have no sense of humor, I got no use for people that can't take a joke.
I think of the Irish as WASCs - White Anglo-Saxon Catholics. I think the discrimination was perpetrated by the English over religious lines. Thus far, the U.S. has had one Catholic President. I think that, in 2012, there are still a lot of Protestants for whom Catholics are "weird."
I knew quite a few Irish people growing up. I would describe them as friendly enough, but not rowdy...unless they had been drinking. I think there's a big difference between Irish Catholics and Mediterranean/Latino Catholics.
During a Spring Break in grad school, a Catholic girl asked me to help her drive home to her parents' house in another state, and I went. The mother was Irish Catholic and kind of uptight. I was telling a story at the dinner table, and unconsciously said "p!$$ed off" in describing the interactions in the story. Before bedtime, this girl came into the guest room and said that, while she was doing dishes with her Mom, the Mom told her I had said "p!$$ed off" 3 TIMES. I thought to myself, "Your daddy makes good money, why doesn't he get me an air ticket back?" Sheez! My parents would have just laughed. We always told jokes at the dinner table.
My mom told me about when she and family went to visit the family in Iowa. She befriended a little girl and played with her outside, the two on their own, without any comment. But then she invited the little girl into her aunt's house for milk and cookies. Her aunt said no, and the little girl went away not surprised. My mom was upset. Her aunt just said, but she's catholic... I'm not much for any of the conventional religions (I'm pagan) but I think its one of those things pushed down between the cracks where its not seen or heard much but is still there.
I have relatives who would be just as uncomfortable with that phrase, and watch what I might inadvertainly say around them out of respect. They aren't catholic, nor are the fundamantist christian. There are a lot of people who are put off by what they consider disrespectful language who are of a lot of religions or none at all.
At the present time more than 50% of the population of the six counties of Northern Ireland are descendents of the Scots and English brought over to surplant the native, Catholic Irish at the time of the Plantation of Ulster.
They have been there for about four hundred years now. The entire reason for their importation as colonists was their anti-Catholicism and their loyalty to the English monarchy. This is a heritage that most of them have not forsaken, however it is difficult for me to see them after this length of time as a "still-present invader."
Had the boundaries of Northern Ireland been drawn on the basis of the continguous population majority of these descendents, Northern Ireland would have been smaller, but would have had a very small RC population. Unfortunately it was ramjammed through on the basis of entire counties basis, which has meant that it ended up including a large minority of very unhappy Irish RC's, and that minority has continued to grow as a proportion of the population. The reason that Northern Ireland does not include the other three counties of the province of Ulster is that in the headiest moments of Protestant Unionist nationalism the wisest heads saw that adding these three heavily Catholic counties would make the viability of the Northern Ireland state highly unlikely, given the already large Catholic minority in the other six counties. Thus, they were reluctantly not included.
The reason it's a continuing problem is because the bigotry by English and Scots and their descendants complete with institutional prejudice and brutality continues to this day. Peace won't come while the descendants of erstwhile invaders continue to harm their unwilling hosts.
I find your father's posture eminently understandable, and totally American based on my experience.
I grew up in a Catholic family in the U.S. in the Forties and Fifties...church every Sunday, etc. I could never understand those people who called themselves Protestants, and yet never, never darkened the door of a church until the day their coffin was brought through it.
But it was clearly part of their heritage to be "Protestant," i.e. - Not-Catholic (and, of course, Not-Jewish.)
Protestants who don't practice their faith or who don't take their faith seriously tend to identify as agnostics, or convert to atheism. It is only Catholics who I see today who don't take their faith seriously yet still identify with it.
I don't find anything about catholicism to be American. The united states was founded by colonists trying to escape the catholic church. I admit though, I try to distance myself from the Irish and Czech (catholic) ancestries of my father. I view those as ancestries as somewhat inferior to the English and German Protestant ancestries of my mother.
When I was a child some of the kids would call me a MIC (the ethnic slur for the Irish). I am also of Peruvian, French, English, Inca, and I found out a few years ago African descent which didn't surprise me at all.
I was frequently called a ~MICSPIC~ a combination of ethnic slurs for the Irish & Spanish. Mom & Dad taught me to be proud of who I am and where my family came from and that the people who used ethnic slurs were just ignorant, racist, full of fear and hate. I didn't pay them any attention and always stood proud which really drove the kids who called me names nuts, eventually they stopped....
I was and have always been proud of my heritage|ethnicity|nationality, so I never hesitated to tell anyone who asked. People frequently mistook me for Italian descent (I probably could have avoided the ethnic slurs), but I always quickly informed them of my diverse heritage...
You have to understand the Irish are defending their country from a still-present invader that has been incredibly cruel and murderous towards the Irish for centuries.
Ulster forever.
(Hopefully this will clue you in that I don't need a lecture. )
"Catholicism" ranked a distant third to "non-English", at least in my book.
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