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I am loving this thread but I would be interested in knowing more about West Virginia's secession from Virginia and how that affects the "southerness" of West Virginia.
By the way, Baptists (all denoms.) are the largest religious body in WV, and altogether evangelical Christian churches are about 36% of all religious bodies in WV.
=eddie gein;28308745] Also to Texas Reb, I have continued to look at the stuff about Indian Territory. Other sources have indicated that the Confederacy was favored more amongst the Creeks, Seminoles, and Cherokees as you suggested, particularly early.
Furthermore, as you also mentioned. the divisions amongst the Cherokee and the Creek followed the same lines as the previous splits between the tribes that had existed since before the removal.
I actually found one communication from like 1861 from an Indian agent that said that the Tribes wanted to maintain a "Kentuckyesque neutrality." I forgot to bookmark it but I will see if I can find it.
Thanks again for some good information. I have been looking (thus far without sucess! LOL), in my boxes/files of research material to find the exact numbers of Native-Americans who joined the respective sides. Just from memory I am thinking it was roughly -- at the beginning -- along the lines of 13,000 Confederate and 3,000 Union. But again, as you say, because the tide turned in favor of the Union, then certainly some saw the writing on the wall and switched sides! LOL
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I am loving this thread but I would be interested in knowing more about West Virginia's secession from Virginia and how that affects the "southerness" of West Virginia.
I think Bobilee is probably the resident expert in that regard. Backing up though, I believe you probably answered your question by providing the answer....if that makes sense! LOL I mean, many in the Old Confederate States probably do not consider West Virginia to be part of the "traditional South", is because they did "secede" from Virginia. I know that is the way I thought for quite a while.
But again, Bobliee has -- over the years -- provided some very good historical/cultural facts that give a different perspective on it all! I thank him for that.
LOL You just HAD to do that (post the video), didn't you, ol' buddy!
You know it!
I better get the ribbin' in while the ribbin' is good! Come the second week of October, I could be eating that crow humble pie. (that stuff tastes horrible!)
By the way, Baptists (all denoms.) are the largest religious body in WV, and altogether evangelical Christian churches are about 36% of all religious bodies in WV.
Baptists being the largest religious body in WV signifies Southern influence, but that in itself does not indicate it's a southern state, as Baptists exist in significant numbers in parts of the Midwest as well. However, when we couple that religious characteristic into post-Civil War history, culture and linguistics, there leaves no room for doubt that West Virginia is indeed a Southern state. So essentially, I'm agreeing with you on that. As for West Virginia and the Civil War, I leave that up in the air, but there is essentially no doubt that West Virginia essentially "rejoined" the South after the Civil War.
Calling West Virginia a Northern state by today's standards would be like calling Pennsylvania a Southern state. Northern influences? Yes. Actually the north? Not on this planet.
Baptists being the largest religious body in WV signifies Southern influence, but that in itself does not indicate it's a southern state, as Baptists exist in significant numbers in parts of the Midwest as well. However, when we couple that religious characteristic into post-Civil War history, culture and linguistics, there leaves no room for doubt that West Virginia is indeed a Southern state. So essentially, I'm agreeing with you on that. As for West Virginia and the Civil War, I leave that up in the air, but there is essentially no doubt that West Virginia essentially "rejoined" the South after the Civil War.
Calling West Virginia a Northern state by today's standards would be like calling Pennsylvania a Southern state. Northern influences? Yes. Actually the north? Not on this planet.
Calling West Virginia a Northern state by today's standards would be like calling Pennsylvania a Southern state. Northern influences? Yes. Actually the north? Not on this planet.
Agreed completely, with the exception of places like Wheeling, which is definitely part of the North.
Kentucky is most Southern. Climatically it is Humid Subtropical with the Ohio River as the northern terminus of that climate zone. Governor Beriah Magoffin favored secession but could not beat out a legislature full of diplomats with economic ties to the north, and refused Lincoln's initial request for militiamen, not wanting harm to "our sister southern states." A shadow government was formed at the Russellville Convention and Kentucky was admitted to the CSA and represented by the central star on the Confederate flag. Western Kentucky is a land of cypress and tupelo swamps as well as the state's only large scale cotton farms, while around the civil war and reconstruction many small family farms grew cotton patches for their own use. Period writers described crossing the Ohio and immediately noticing the differences due to the poverty stricken South. Nowadays the untrained eye may perceive the oak hickory forests of the lower Midwest to be identical to Kentucky, but further investigation reveals southern species dominate, especially southern red oak, blackjack oak, post oak, willow oak, cherrybark oak, tons of sweetgum, yellow pines, winged elm, and several species of magnolia. The accents are upland south, except fir the two county region adjacent to Cincinnati. Fried catfish and BBQ pork are the most common dishes at family eateries. Nowadays like much of the upper south there is mixed influence from relocated northerners, just as in Virginia and the Carolinas, but rural Kentucky remains predominantly Southern.
Being adjacent to the Midwest does create an "embarrassed" culture for youth in the Upper South as they see derogatory stereotyping and seek to distance themselves from the culture of their parents and grandparents in favor of this new homogeneous American youth emanating from their computer and TV.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by pgm123
Is there an easy way of checking that? I've been trying to figure it out. It is less Baptist than most other places in the South, though:
I said in my last post that I think the Southern Baptist church (as well as Southern Methodists and Southern Episcopalians) helped unify "The South" in a way that the Civil War did not. There were certainly many divisions in the South before the Civil War.
Baptists are not the sole indicator of the South. in Missouri's case, Southern Baptists are equally matched by Catholics. And most of the state is not culturally or linguistically Southern.
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