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Maryland and Delaware may not have all the elements of the Northeast but culturally and linguistically and politically they are part of the Northeast. Buffalo and Pittsburgh are culturally, demographically and linguistically more like Chicago and Detroit than like Boston or New York.
Maryland and Delaware may not have all the elements of the Northeast but culturally and linguistically and politically they are part of the Northeast.
Parts of them align with Philly, but even Baltimore has Southern characterisrics like no city of the Northeast. Even linguistically it isn't fully like Philly, especially with their long u vowels and higher incidence of glide deletion.
Maryland outside of major city centers is Republican. Can't say the same for the majority of the Northeast. However, let's concede politically, Maryland is blue (it's also very Black). Ohio like PA is a swing state.
Culturally, not sure about that. Don't know how many areas of Philly or Jersey that have Southern cuisine. Ohio doesn't have Southern cuisine even in Cincy. By this I mean that it isn't part of the mainstream culture. For how Southern influenced you claim Cincy is, you seem to ignore how much more Southern Baltimore native culture is. Honest has no equivalent in any part of Ohio.
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Buffalo and Pittsburgh are culturally, demographically and linguistically more like Chicago and Detroit than like Boston or New York.
Boston, NYC, Detroit, and Chicago are all demographically similar. Demographically, Cleveland is more Northeastern than DC and Baltimore. You don't find as many Italians or white ethnics in these towns as you do in Cleveland.
Linguistically, Pittsburgh doesn't share many similarities with any of the cities you listed. But it fits in perfectly with Cincy linguistically.
I'd like to know what your criteria is from classifying dialects because it makes no sense. You seem to classify them according to what you want them to be rather than what they actually are. New York and Boston accents aren't even the same category outside of being Northern dialects. Comparing New York to Boston in dialect is like comparing Philly to Cincy. But you're not ok with that since you think theres a magical dialect separator in the Allegheny Plateau.
Dialect families are Northern, Midland, and Southern. Boston, NYC, Buffalo, Detroit, and Chicago are all in that family group (why wouldn't they be, they had tons of the same ethnic groups shaping their language)
Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Cincy are all in the Midland family group. Baltimore is debated and is sometimes on the cusp of Southern due to proximity to the Tidewater region.
But Pittsburgh is not in the same family as Chicago and Detroit. Different ethnic groups shaped Pittsburgh's dialect, especially the Scottish and Irish just like in Philly. That's not the case in New York or Chicago, where various mainland European groups affected the pronunciation of cities like NYC and Chicago. For example, all Northern dialects say their long o's and u's the same way. Philly and Pittsburgh and all cities further South share a different "fronted" pronunciation of the o Vowel and Baltimore of both o and u.
I'd like to add that Pittsburgh's accent actually has some similarities to Boston in the way they merge short o's with "aw" sounds. So caught and cot rhyme and so do Don and Dawn, being said "aw". Nobody tends to do this in the Midwest or even Midland, and is one of the lasting British carryovers of the Pittsburgh dialect. It seems only Eastern New England and Pittsburgh do this East of the Rocky Mountains if I'm not mistaken. Don't get me wrong; Pittsburgh does share similarities with Midwest dialects, but the Great Lakes region isn't one of them. Pittsburgh is closer to Cincy in that regard.
Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 11-01-2015 at 03:46 PM..
Parts of them align with Philly, but even Baltimore has Southern characterisrics like no city of the Northeast. Even linguistically it isn't fully like Philly, especially with their long u vowels and higher incidence of glide deletion.
Maryland outside of major city centers is Republican. Can't say the same for the majority of the Northeast. However, let's concede politically, Maryland is blue (it's also very Black). Ohio like PA is a swing state.
Culturally, not sure about that. Don't know how many areas of Philly or Jersey that have Southern cuisine. Ohio doesn't have Southern cuisine even in Cincy. By this I mean that it isn't part of the mainstream culture. For how Southern influenced you claim Cincy is, you seem to ignore how much more Southern Baltimore native culture is. Honest has no equivalent in any part of Ohio.
Boston, NYC, Detroit, and Chicago are all demographically similar. Demographically, Cleveland is more Northeastern than DC and Baltimore. You don't find as many Italians or white ethnics in these towns as you do in Cleveland.
Linguistically, Pittsburgh doesn't share many similarities with any of the cities you listed. But it fits in perfectly with Cincy linguistically.
I'd like to know what your criteria is from classifying dialects because it makes no sense. You seem to classify them according to what you want them to be rather than what they actually are. New York and Boston accents aren't even the same category outside of being Northern dialects. Comparing New York to Boston in dialect is like comparing Philly to Cincy. But you're not ok with that since you think theres a magical dialect separator in the Allegheny Plateau.
Dialect families are Northern, Midland, and Southern. Boston, NYC, Buffalo, Detroit, and Chicago are all in that family group (why wouldn't they be, they had tons of the same ethnic groups shaping their language)
Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Cincy are all in the Midland family group. Baltimore is debated and is sometimes on the cusp of Southern due to proximity to the Tidewater region.
But Pittsburgh is not in the same family as Chicago and Detroit. Different ethnic groups shaped Pittsburgh's dialect, especially the Scottish and Irish just like in Philly. That's not the case in New York or Chicago, where various mainland European groups affected the pronunciation of cities like NYC and Chicago. For example, all Northern dialects say their long o's and u's the same way. Philly and Pittsburgh and all cities further South share a different "fronted" pronunciation of the o Vowel and Baltimore of both o and u.
I'd like to add that Pittsburgh's accent actually has some similarities to Boston in the way they merge short o's with "aw" sounds. So caught and cot rhyme and so do Don and Dawn, being said "aw". Nobody tends to do this in the Midwest or even Midland, and is one of the lasting British carryovers of the Pittsburgh dialect. It seems only Eastern New England and Pittsburgh do this East of the Rocky Mountains if I'm not mistaken. Don't get me wrong; Pittsburgh does share similarities with Midwest dialects, but the Great Lakes region isn't one of them. Pittsburgh is closer to Cincy in that regard.
Ohio may be more Northeastern than Maryland but it's also more Midwestern than it is Northeastern. Maryland and Baltimore have Southern influences but Baltimore is unquestionably part of the Midland. It's pretty typical of all states to be conservative in rural areas. Finally there is no Northern dialect. Buffalonians have the same accent as Chicagoans do. Nyc and Boston sound nothing like them. And Cincinnatians don't speak the yinzer accent or whatever it's called. The midland dialect occurs only in cities that are decidedly more northern than southern. Maryland including D.C. and Delaware are more Northeastern than anything else, so it makes sense at least to me to call them Northeastern. I'm tired of this silly debate. So long.
Ohio may be more Northeastern than Maryland but it's also more Midwestern than it is Northeastern. Maryland and Baltimore have Southern influences but Baltimore is unquestionably part of the Midland. It's pretty typical of all states to be conservative in rural areas. Finally there is no Northern dialect. Buffalonians have the same accent as Chicagoans do. Nyc and Boston sound nothing like them. And Cincinnatians don't speak the yinzer accent or whatever it's called. The midland dialect occurs only in cities that are decidedly more northern than southern. Maryland including D.C. and Delaware are more Northeastern than anything else, so it makes sense at least to me to call them Northeastern. I'm tired of this silly debate. So long.
There is no Northern dialect? Yet you believe in a Midland and Southern dialect, yet not in a Northern one. Ridiculous.
There absolutely is a Northern family of accents, and NYC and Boston happen to be in them, as do Chicago and Cleveland. I can't believe you honestly just said that. You'll concede there is a Midland accent that encompasses East Coast cities of Philly and Baltimore, but you refuse to admit a Northern family exists. Not sure if you're even serious anymore.
There is no Northern dialect? Yet you believe in a Midland and Southern dialect, yet not in a Northern one. Ridiculous.
There absolutely is a Northern family of accents, and NYC and Boston happen to be in them, as do Chicago and Cleveland. I can't believe you honestly just said that. You'll concede there is a Midland accent that encompasses East Coast cities of Philly and Baltimore, but you refuse to admit a Northern family exists. Not sure if you're even serious anymore.
I told you I'm no longer engaging you. You just can't resist. There is no one Northern accent therefore it makes no sense to say there is a Northern family when the accents aren't even related to each other. Don't bother me again.
I told you I'm no longer engaging you. You just can't resist. There is no one Northern accent therefore it makes no sense to say there is a Northern family when the accents aren't even related to each other. Don't bother me again.
You are "engaging" him right now
Anyway, for someone to keep insisting Baltimore/Maryland is the Northeast, you really should not be throwing stones at others on this site!
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