To Circumcise or Not to Circumcise......that's the question! (brainwash, how much, money)
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If the doctor doesn't feel comfortable letting you be present for the procedure, it is because they are not using enough pain relief and the baby is screaming.
Think about what I told you they do for older people.... a nerve block AND intravenous sedation. If they have to do all that for sufficient pain relief for an adult, do you think a little EMLA cream or injecting a little lidocaine under the skin will be enough? Unfortunately, it isn't. They also send adults home with a prescription for Vicodin after the procedure.
I haven't read the thread if other people witness circumcisions these days in hospitals and can report on what is done.
A grown man's penis is also more developed than a newborn's. My first son's was done at the pediatrician's office. He cried when they carried him away and I could here him a few rooms over. After a few minutes he was quiet. They brought him back to me about 20 minutes later. He was fine. Both my boys never expressed pain or showed discomfort during their week of recovery. Never cried while urinating or anything. They were unaware.
Have you not read the links from the American Academy of Pediatrics and Centers for Disease Control that say the medical benefits of circumcision outweigh any risks?
There is a real basis, whether or not you choose to acknowledge it.
And you know what he is doing sexually? You know girls reactions to his penis?
There are no compelling reasons for female circumcision, there are valid medical reasons for male circumcision. I could argue it is barbaric to expose your son to future diseases and infections that can be greatly reduced by a simple procedure.
It is an incredible cop out and an abdication of parental responsibility. You are supposed to make decisions for your child for their welfare and benefit, especially if they are not competent to at the time to make a decision.
When your son is 4 and wants to go out in the cold and play without a coat on are you going to acquiesce to his wishes? When he doesn't want to go see the dentist, will it be okay because it is his body?
Sack up and make a decision based on a careful consideration of the facts, not a whiny "it's his decision".
That whole post was the equivalent of placing your hands over your ears and going "la la la, I can't hear you la la la."
You didn't address a single thing in the post you were purportedly responding to. He discussed medical studies, you discussed everything but.
Seriously.... you've had your sons go "golly thanks Mom for not having us circumcised." Who talks to their mother about their penis? Who talks about their penis at all?
Why do people keep saying this when there clearly are benefits?
You are willfully not paying attention to the scientific studies.
Why don't we have an adult conversation instead and leave the hysterics aside.
Mmmmm, I've seen so many reasonable posts from you in other topics that I'd encourage you to look at the AAP, CDC and other sources that have weighed in on the question in very recent years before deciding one way or the other.
I'll take the links for the numbers you are quoting. Penile cancer is a non-issue if you don't have it and it is only one of the diseases that circumcision shows benefits for.
Circumcision probably is painful, but I've never known anyone who was circumcised as an infant who can tell me what it was like since no one can remember.
Again with the rest of the world doesn't do it. So what, that is a fact of zero benefit. Most of the world doesn't bathe regularly either, should we stop bathing?
It is disingenuous to say "there is no good reason to automatically circumcise" because I have not seen anyone say it ought to be automatic or mandatory. I have seen people say there are benefits and that the people who say there are no good reasons are ignoring evidence to the contrary. They may not find the reasons compelling enough, but they can not say there are none.
Problem is, for every case of circumcision being good medically speaking, there are also cases to say to the contrary. For example, I've heard of cases of circumcisions gone wrong. That easily screws up the boy's sex life, and other aspects for the rest of his life.
One story on TV (20/20 IIRC?) mentioned they used some electric current-like thing (not the usual scalpel? ), and it incinerated his penis. Parents decided to raise him as a girl. However, he was still wired as a boy, so he got confused by that. He preferred wearing shorts, peeing while standing up, and even got shunned from using the ladies room. He contemplated suicide when his parents tearfully told him the truth. He ended up getting some prosthetic (don't know how well that works, if at all), and ended up getting married to a woman.
That is when my brother related his experience and that it had been very, very painful and at that point in time he had cursed our mother for not having had him circumcised.
I agree, very painful. Can you even imagine for a second how the poor baby feels? Or do people just discount the pain an infant must feel because they cannot express in words how painful it is?
"Let's strap the baby down and cut off some skin." Just horrifying to me.
Circumcision is done in situations where it is medically necessary (such as phimosis), thus, it should be covered by insurance.
NOT.
It does not always have to be circumcised when phimosis is present, it can be successfully stretched. I did my research. My youngest son had this condition, it was successfully stretched.
And you know what he is doing sexually? You know girls reactions to his penis?
Duh, how about I know he's been sexually active since his teens because, you know, as his parent we have had frank and open talks about practicing safe sex, respecting your partner and their boundaries, the consequences of stupid or careless behavior, etc. etc. I know he's had a number of girlfriends and while I don't delve into the details of his sex life I know that his relationships tend to be happy and healthy, and not being circumcised does not seem to a problem for him.
So sorry that your mind went to the gutter and that you find it odd that a parent might realize their kids do have sex lives.
I agree, very painful. Can you even imagine for a second how the poor baby feels? Or do people just discount the pain an infant must feel because they cannot express in words how painful it is?
"Let's strap the baby down and cut off some skin." Just horrifying to me.
Barbaric.
The baby doesn't feel pain, because local anesthesia is part of the circumcision process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGi603
NOT.
It does not always have to be circumcised when phimosis is present, it can be successfully stretched. I did my research. My youngest son had this condition, it was successfully stretched.
That's beside the point. My comment was a justification for insurance covering circumcision when the procedure was deemed medically necessary by a physician.
I didn't ask about the sheath, I asked about foreskin.
An animal's sheath contains the entire penis, which is an internal organ.
A man's foreskin covers just the prepuce of his penis, which is an external organ.
People talk about how they think circumcized penises are more attractive, I think that small labia are more attractive but I would never tell a woman to get a labiaplasty. I would get hell for that, deservedly. It's one of the many double standards that exist in favor of women.
1. Not one person in this entire thread mentioned asking an adult male partner to be circumcised.
2. I'm disappointed and disgusted with all of the false dichotomies w "labia v foreskin." The removal of foreskin is for health and hygiene which benefits both partners.
I have two boys, one was, one wasn't. The first one was born at a military hospital. The doctor who performed the procedure appeared to be African American. He was very conservative in the amount of tissue removed. And that baby screamed so loudly I could hear him from the shower. The second son hasn't had any problems that I know of, none while he was under my roof.
I once talked to a man who seemed to be troubled. He said he was in so much pain but he was elusive about the location. I asked if he'd been to the doctor. He said yes and the doctor wanted him to be circumcised to cure him. I managed to get a few more details out and suggested he use A & D ointment first. I saw him after that with a big smile and a thank you. I don't think people/men who are used to the circumcised completely understand the uncircumcised. If women can keep all their folds, etc, clean, it's crazy to think a man cannot.
So, I have my views on this and I was interested in learning about your views as well.
A few ground rules if I may:
I'm interested in SCIENTIFIC reasons. NOT how you 'feel' about the topic...or what "god" says. I really want to know WHY you are for or against circumcision and would like to learn about the scientific reasons behind your position.
My view is that since it's not 'MY' body, I don't really have a right to modify it. I've read that circumcision 'may prevent' some types of cancer, but i'm not sure about the sources. I've also heard about cleanliness and the reduced chances of getting infection IF a newborn is circumcised.....but then again, i've heard the counter claim that it's more likely that the newborn will get infections from the circumcision itself!
What say you? Please provide sources to back your claim if possible.
I do not believe in circumcision. I was told when I was a child, that the majority of the world's men are circumcised. What they told me is not correct. It turns out most of them are not circumcised and even in U.S.A. there is a slowly increasing number that is not circumcised. The ones which are circumcised seem to be from areas where there is strong religion and are circumcised because of religious purposes, with secondary excuses such as that it reduces disease, or it's gross, or "Everybody else does it. - I do not want my sons to be ridiculed." I believe that scientific and medical reasons that explain why circumcision is necessary are actually biased because of religion. Hasn't this happened before, where medical concerns claimed to be based from science were actually lies spread by religion?
It also reduces the chance of infections when someone is older and maybe either physically or mentally impaired and cannot clean themselves as well. I have heard of the results of the latter. It's not good.
As I stated before, my son with Down syndrome has managed his without issue. He functions at the pre-school level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGi603
I agree, very painful. Can you even imagine for a second how the poor baby feels? Or do people just discount the pain an infant must feel because they cannot express in words how painful it is?
"Let's strap the baby down and cut off some skin." Just horrifying to me.
Barbaric.
Yes, but what the neighbors, Aunt Bessie, Grandpa or the boy's in the locker room would think far outweighs the horror. It is about what others will think. It wouldn't only be the cutting it off but having what acidic urine would feel like, the wetness of the diaper against it. The rubbing of the diaper against that cut.
It is a choice but we can tell that people think that choice should be taken away because of the brainwashing they have went through. It was a money maker for the hospital, quick and easy. Now that insurance companies are making their own "cuts" to services, you'll find it isn't so necessary anymore.
I always think it is funny when someone quotes the CDC or medical establishment. FAR too many times, they have changed their minds midstream and they are after all in the business of selling services. Plus, anything that has been taking place for a long time, realizing the legal implications, they just kind of shuffle and stutter.
I am sorry I let it be done to my first son. His father said it was the thing to do. I think it was good that we adopted our other son at 4 weeks because we were making a much more conscious decision and I had come to know and love this baby having contact him where as the other was cut well before I had spent much time with him and after childbirth and it wasn't an easy one, I was just too exhausted to explore my options and also just young and ignorant about the reality.
We practice homeopathic medicine and it has been awesome!
When it comes to scientific, I don't think you'll find hard cold facts at least not for a few years yet. That has to do with it being recommended so they'll stay on their soapbox to make sure they don't end up liable for any stupidity on their part - the medical establishment that pushed it for $$$$$$$$.
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), and it incinerated his penis. Parents decided to raise him as a girl. However, he was still wired as a boy, so he got confused by that. He preferred wearing shorts, peeing while standing up, and even got shunned from using the ladies room. He contemplated suicide when his parents tearfully told him the truth. He ended up getting some prosthetic (don't know how well that works, if at all), and ended up getting married to a woman.
The second son hasn't had any problems that I know of, none while he was under my roof. 
I don't think people/men who are used to the circumcised completely understand the uncircumcised. If women can keep all their folds, etc, clean, it's crazy to think a man cannot.
Against It:
I believe that scientific and medical reasons that explain why circumcision is necessary are actually biased because of religion. Hasn't this happened before, where medical concerns claimed to be based from science were actually lies spread by religion? 
