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A few things:
-- Consentual sex is NOT consentual pregnancy. I would support the option of filing criminal charges against a man who fails to WITHDRAW without prior consent. I doubt that most all unwanted pregnancies could be so often associated with anything else.
-- Just as many men as women support abortion. The percentages are about the same. I've never heard of a man who actually begged and pleaded for the woman to keep the baby. Never. Never heard a man talk about how he didn't want that abortion. Ever. I know men who agreed with the abortion. I know men who supported the decision. And I know men who don't pay child support. I know who completely bailed on being a father.
-- A new study found the main factor influencing a woman's decision to have an abortion was a man's willingness and ability to be supportive. Most women opted for an abortion because they could not count on the father for anything. Most of THOSE women were also physically abused by the fathers.
I would support the option of filing criminal charges against a man who fails to WITHDRAW without prior consent.]
Yes, punish them. Punish them all. Build more dungeons (privatized, of course). Ship in more whips and chains
Tell a man that he fathered a precious, beautiful, miraculous gift from God, a priceless and irreplaceable treasure, and then, as his reward for doing so, consign him in irons to serve a lifetime of penal servitude. Good Lord, you people. Where were you when Cotton Mather needed you?
Exactly. The couple participating in the sexual act do not necessarily intent to bring a new life into this world. This decision has to be made when pregnancy results. After pregnancy is known the couple has to make the decision whether they are willing to bring the new life into this world or not. This is a pro-choice view. The pro-life view has it that every pregnancy has to be carried to the term, basically if the pregnancy is known, there is no decision here, there is only one thing that can be done. Basically, this means that a man and a woman participating in a sexual act acknowledge their willingness to procreate by participating in this act. Sex is purely for procreation, because if it does result in the pregnancy it has to be carried through to the term, because it's too late for the 'decision'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez
I would support the option of filing criminal charges against a man who fails to WITHDRAW without prior consent. I doubt that most all unwanted pregnancies could be so often associated with anything else.
Oh, yes they can. Withdraw method is not 100% foolproof. Even birth control pill is not a 100% guarantee. The only thing that can guarantee that sexual act is not going to result in pregnancy is sterilization of one of the partners. Very few couples actually resort to that.
If both partners are fertile a sexual act can result in pregnancy. Period. Even if they use protection, there is no guarantee. Using more than one method of protection is better than using one method, it's pretty much almost fool proof, but never 100%.
There is one thing that truly separates the pro-lifers and the pro-choicers. It's the question of INTENT. A new life is a life when someone intends to bring it into this world. The core of the disagreement here is WHEN this intent occurs.
Pro-choicers argue that intent is when the parents or a woman (if the man walks away) make a conscious decision to have a baby AFTER the fact that the pregnancy is known.
Pro-lifers argue that the intent to bring in the new life happens when a man and a woman decide to have sex. When they participate in the sexual act they 'agree' to bring the new life into this world if the encounter results in pregnancy. So, their decision is not after the pregnancy is known but before. Therefore, when the pregnancy results, there is never a question and its too late for the decision, pregnancy should always result in a birth of a child (given things go well with it).
IMO, this is fundamentally resorting to the same question: is sex for procreation only or not? Pro-lifers logically should believe that sex is purely for procreation and they do, to one extent or another. Some are radical and are even against birth control saying that every sexual encounter should not be obstructed from its true purpose. Some are moderate believing in birth control and some even are ok with the emergency contraception like Plan B.
It's all about sex, it's not about anything else. And religion plays a huge role in it. Accidents can happen when people have sex over many of their fertile years even if they use contraception. Whether sex is inside or outside of marriage is not even relevant. Married couples aren't always ready to have children at any moment that they are having sex, and after they have children they still continue having sex and can have many more children, but they decide not too. Is planned parenthood a vile option? Should couples give birth to every child they conceive when birth control fails?
Hmmm....I am pro-life and I don't think "intent" or the cirumcumstances under which sex occurs has anything to do with it. Either a life is created at conception or it is not. End of story. I do not support abortion in the case of rape. While pregnancy occurring as a result of rape is traumatic and thankfully rare (according to statistics,) I don't think it changes the essential morality of the situation.
Hmmm....I am pro-life and I don't think "intent" or the cirumcumstances under which sex occurs has anything to do with it. Either a life is created at conception or it is not.
Any sexual act has a potential of creating a life, the only method to ensure it doesn't occur is abstinence or sterilization.
I am not suggesting that every pro-life person says that they are willing to bring a new life into the world when they are ready to have sex. When you use protection you rely on it to work every time, so you can still be pro-life and engage in sexual act without wanting to have pregnancy. That is what you will say if questioned. But in reality by engaging into sexual act you are inadvertently agreeing to bring a new life into the world should your conceive even if you don't want to. You agree to carry the baby to the term before you participate in the act that may or may not create this baby because this is the only way, pregnancy cannot be terminated. A pro-choice person decides afterwards because there are two choices: keep the pregnancy or not.
Oh, yes they can. Withdraw method is not 100% foolproof. Even birth control pill is not a 100% guarantee. The only thing that can guarantee that sexual act is not going to result in pregnancy is sterilization of one of the partners. Very few couples actually resort to that.
If both partners are fertile a sexual act can result in pregnancy. Period. Even if they use protection, there is no guarantee. Using more than one method of protection is better than using one method, it's pretty much almost fool proof, but never 100%.
Though the rates of actually preventing pregnancy are about the same for the pill and sterilization. Both fail 0.1% of the time.
Any couple, however ignorant, who in good faith made an attempt to avoid pregnancy, does not "intend" to create a child. Anyone who asserts to the contrary does so only under the most bizarro-world logic imaginable, which is pretty easy to find on these forums.
Though the rates of actually preventing pregnancy are about the same for the pill and sterilization. Both fail 0.1% of the time.
We aren't all fertile to the same degree, there are couples trying for years to have a baby and there are those who are on the pill and use another method and still get pregnant.
Unwanted pregnancy can happen to anyone, yes, the odds are small, but not impossible. Not all women can use birth control pills or hormonal methods of birth control due to certain health conditions or bad side effects. When you do use it, it's not uncommon to skip a pill or two, forget to get a refill, etc. Not everyone has access to Plan B either.
I believe that every woman should have a choice to decide whether she is ready to be a mother or not when pregnancy results. Nobody has a right to take over her body and turn her into some sort of an incubation tank.
Any sexual act has a potential of creating a life, the only method to ensure it doesn't occur is abstinence or sterilization.
I am not suggesting that every pro-life person says that they are willing to bring a new life into the world when they are ready to have sex. When you use protection you rely on it to work every time, so you can still be pro-life and engage in sexual act without wanting to have pregnancy. That is what you will say if questioned. But in reality by engaging into sexual act you are inadvertently agreeing to bring a new life into the world should your conceive even if you don't want to. You agree to carry the baby to the term before you participate in the act that may or may not create this baby because this is the only way, pregnancy cannot be terminated. A pro-choice person decides afterwards because there are two choices: keep the pregnancy or not.
There is always adoption. Yes, the woman still has to go through the physical stresses of pregnancy. But at least the woman (and man) can avoid being parents if they are unable to do so or do not wish to.
Any sexual act has a potential of creating a life, the only method to ensure it doesn't occur is abstinence or sterilization. .
You're absolutely right. The only way we can cut down on motor vehicle deaths, is to abstain from driving automobiles. You start.
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