Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Take out loans. Anyone can go to college, and rarely do people come out of it debt free. Financial aide is available to anyone (it is is very easy to get if you come from a low-income family) so a lack of money isn't really an excuse.
You missed the whole point. Many, possibly most, college graduates will never make enough money to pay back the loans. Because there will never be enough well-paying jobs for the army of BAs that we are cranking out.
Education isn't as free as you think. A Pell grant isn't going to pay your way through college. You either need savings to expend on it, or you have to be willing to take on a debt load that you have no guarantees of being well-off enough to repay.
Or, gasp, actually work a part-time job to get through college. Or, wonder of wonders, actually attend a college that doesn't have sky-high tuition.
Hey, when I started college, my parents did not have a dime. It was an awful recession (One that makes this one look a short-term cash flow problem), raging inflation, high gas prices, you name it. When I was accepted, my parents told me that they just couldn't pay for any of it.
So what did I do? I worked a full-time job, attending classes in the morning, and working from three p.m. to midnight. I finagled a scholarship. I applied for grants. And somehow, despite all this, I still managed to graduate in four years, without owing a dime in student loans.
Hey, was it fun? Heck, no. I suppose I missed out on a lot of the fun of college life because I was either working or studying all the time.
Would I want my kids to go through college in that way? Most assuredly not. But to blithely say that getting a higher education is impossible because the costs are too high and the debt load will be staggering means that you haven't considered other possibilities.
If all you can afford are shelter and food, aren't you still poor? I can't afford a vehicle of my own, to have to pay for gas, insurance, registration--but I always have enough for a meal a day, and a roof over my head. For a long while, I was taking care of TWO people on my income...and I commend her for being able to budget money so wisely.
After I graduated, I got a job that couldn't cover my rent, my food, and my car payment. So I got a second job. Never really considered doing anything else.
Ignorant people are not stupid, nor lazy; they are uninformed. Humans that know their attempts will be met with resistance at best, and raw hatred at worst, have a tendency to not try. It isn't laziness, it's fear.
I liked your post and gave you a rep.
Though the thing that I disagree with is the your justification of their continued poverty by saying they are not lazy but uninformed. Being uninformed is being lazy because there are so many ways that people can get the skills, training and knowledge to be successful today, but most people like this do not have the initiative to get the information and use it.
Everything? Have we guaranteed every family a basic subsistence income, whether they "earn" it or not? Your wonderful largesse consists of setting up employment offices in inaccessible locations, which the poor can crawl to on their hands and knees to beg for a job, and be told there are none for people with their qualifications.
As an insurance preiumm payer, I subsidize the consequences of your second helpings, or your extra dash of salt, or your junk food diet, or your staying out in the sun too long, or your kids' high-school sports injuries. I subsidize your risk while talking on a cell phone while you drive, or commuting in rush hour traffic. I do not complain. As a member of your society, I protect you. I could blame you and say it's your fault, but I recognize that our soceity is made up of all different kinds of people, and all are entitled to liberty and dignity. We all, as members of a common society, share the responsibility for the well-being and dignity of each other. I'n not going to tell you that I gave you the opportunity to eat a better diet, so to hell with you if your arteries harden.
The "root cause of poverty" is exactly the same everywhere on our planet. It is the absence of general wealth in the society as a whole. America has no "root cause" that would justify any American being without the means to shelter and feed himself or his family.
A civilized society labors collectively to provide everyone with what they need to survive, not the opportunity to earn what they need. It is not civilized to throw people to the lions and tell them "We have given you the opportunity to kill the lions".
No, a civilized society provides the mechanism for people to earn their own way in life. It doesn't guarantee anybody a living, particularly if you're too trifling to really do much about your own situation in life. And your scenario about the employment office being in some remote location is just a bunch of baloney, since every employment office I've ever seen sits near a bus stop. In fact, given the fact that every public library now has internet access, you don't even have to hop the #6 to get downtown. Just stroll over to the library, sit down at the computer, and start looking. Heck, just ask the librarian for help, for most librarians have information to help job seekers.
By the way, I think it's really important to provide some definition here. By poor, I don't mean the factory worker who has been laid off. Those people deserve all the support that society can give them. Instead, I'm talking about the people who have figured out to work the system, and prefer to live at a subsistence level off handouts and under-the-table cash than to actually get up every morning and go to a job.
And such people do indeed exist, for I have encountered them first-hand by the score in my work. As a consultant to a government housing agency, I spent a three-year period talking with those in public housing. Over that three-year period, I interviewed literally hundreds and hundreds of people who availed themselves to public housing at one time or another.
They fell into two broad categories: Those who had encountered some tough luck in life and legitimately needed the support of public housing, and those who simply were feeding off the system, often for decades. The proportion between the two were pretty much 50/50. For every resident who had lost a job and needed public housing to get back on his or her feet (Those typically came and went inside of six months), there was another who sat there watching television and hanging out all day--people who could swing a pick or flip a hamburger, but chose not to. In this public housing system, every community had a job program, skills training, internships, and bulletin boards with short-time work postings. Yet a very large percentage of the residents, able-bodied people, never availed themselves of the resources that were less than 300 feet from their door. I remember the day a contractor, desperate for labor, held a job fair. No skills required, just a willingness to show up on time and work hard eight hours a day, for $13.50 an hour. Heck, he even offered to supply work boots and hard hats. A flyer was delivered to every unit in the community. A total of four guys showed up for the job fair out of hundreds of men who were candidates.
In fact, the director of one public housing community, a 30-year veteran, was quite candid when I made this observation. He said, "It's the half who really need our help that I come to work for everyday. If I could turn the other half out tomorrow, I would do it." The client was so pleased with my firm's work that they wanted to extend my contract. However, I had become so dispirited by the sheer laziness of half of our clients, I just decided not to renew.
In short, the current programs are comprehensive, effective, well-publicized, and easily accessed by those in all but the most rural locations. You just have to turn off General Hospital to make the most of them.
But you're really not interested in hearing that. You're just interested in making excuses. Yet if illegal aliens manage to make the trek from Honduras or Mexico to work in fields, on construction sites, or the counters of fast food restaurants, why should I feel sympathy for somebody in this country who won't get out of bed in the morning and get the same jobs?
Or, gasp, actually work a part-time job to get through college. Or, wonder of wonders, actually attend a college that doesn't have sky-high tuition.
Hey, when I started college, my parents did not have a dime. It was an awful recession (One that makes this one look a short-term cash flow problem), raging inflation, high gas prices, you name it. When I was accepted, my parents told me that they just couldn't pay for any of it.
So what did I do? I worked a full-time job, attending classes in the morning, and working from three p.m. to midnight. I finagled a scholarship. I applied for grants. And somehow, despite all this, I still managed to graduate in four years, without owing a dime in student loans.
Hey, was it fun? Heck, no. I suppose I missed out on a lot of the fun of college life because I was either working or studying all the time.
Would I want my kids to go through college in that way? Most assuredly not. But to blithely say that getting a higher education is impossible because the costs are too high and the debt load will be staggering means that you haven't considered other possibilities.
I worked a full-time job when I went to college...but I ran out of money and time. It was a two-year college, and I would have had to travel into the city to go to a four-year institution anyhow.
No, a civilized society provides the mechanism for people to earn their own way in life. It doesn't guarantee anybody a living, particularly if you're too trifling to really do much about your own situation in life. And your scenario about the employment office being in some remote location is just a bunch of baloney, since every employment office I've ever seen sits near a bus stop. In fact, given the fact that every public library now has internet access, you don't even have to hop the #6 to get downtown. Just stroll over to the library, sit down at the computer, and start looking. Heck, just ask the librarian for help, for most librarians have information to help job seekers.
By the way, I think it's really important to provide some definition here. By poor, I don't mean the factory worker who has been laid off. Those people deserve all the support that society can give them. Instead, I'm talking about the people who have figured out to work the system, and prefer to live at a subsistence level off handouts and under-the-table cash than to actually get up every morning and go to a job.
And such people do indeed exist, for I have encountered them first-hand by the score in my work. As a consultant to a government housing agency, I spent a three-year period talking with those in public housing. Over that three-year period, I interviewed literally hundreds and hundreds of people who availed themselves to public housing at one time or another.
They fell into two broad categories: Those who had encountered some tough luck in life and legitimately needed the support of public housing, and those who simply were feeding off the system, often for decades. The proportion between the two were pretty much 50/50. For every resident who had lost a job and needed public housing to get back on his or her feet (Those typically came and went inside of six months), there was another who sat there watching television and hanging out all day--people who could swing a pick or flip a hamburger, but chose not to. In this public housing system, every community had a job program, skills training, internships, and bulletin boards with short-time work postings. Yet a very large percentage of the residents, able-bodied people, never availed themselves of the resources that were less than 300 feet from their door. I remember the day a contractor, desperate for labor, held a job fair. No skills required, just a willingness to show up on time and work hard eight hours a day, for $13.50 an hour. Heck, he even offered to supply work boots and hard hats. A flyer was delivered to every unit in the community. A total of four guys showed up for the job fair out of hundreds of men who were candidates.
In fact, the director of one public housing community, a 30-year veteran, was quite candid when I made this observation. He said, "It's the half who really need our help that I come to work for everyday. If I could turn the other half out tomorrow, I would do it." The client was so pleased with my firm's work that they wanted to extend my contract. However, I had become so dispirited by the sheer laziness of half of our clients, I just decided not to renew.
In short, the current programs are comprehensive, effective, well-publicized, and easily accessed by those in all but the most rural locations. You just have to turn off General Hospital to make the most of them.
But you're really not interested in hearing that. You're just interested in making excuses. Yet if illegal aliens manage to make the trek from Honduras or Mexico to work in fields, on construction sites, or the counters of fast food restaurants, why should I feel sympathy for somebody in this country who won't get out of bed in the morning and get the same jobs?
The Mexicans have connections--they won't hire Anglos for the jobs they do.
And for me, it's either a two-bus trip to the library, or walk an hour and a half to the nearest one.
This is true up to a point and of course you have to define "poor", "lazy", etc. My father came from China when he made something like 10 cents a day working 12 hours a day. He spoke little English and had only a handful of friends. Welfare did not exist and racism was rapid. His education was from China and he was at the top of his class, but it didn't mean a hill of beans here in the US. His skills were in cooking and farming. But Chinese food was not that popular back then. So, I would say that, if you were born here in the US in the last 50 years and you are an adult and poor, I would to have to agree with Weekend. Education is free up through high school, you can get grants or loans to get a colledge education and get a decent job. But you have to work hard in school (not be lazy), get good grades (have at least average intelligence), and have that piece of paper called a dipolma.
A very interesting phenomenon occurred in the late 70's after the Vietnam war. You might recall that tens of thousands of refugees left Vietnam and many came to America. Most of these people spoke little or no English, had no skills, and literally had only the clothes on their backs. The internet was not around until the early 80's, but not user friendly, so information was not as easy to come by. These were really poor people. But by the 90's we saw Vietnamese stores, restaurants, and retail businesses. Then the younger generation went to college and became engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. This is also true of the Cambodians, which I happen to know from previous research I did, own 80% of the donut shops in the huge state of California. I understand not of these refugees made it. But a vast majority did.
Education is free up through high school, you can get grants or loans to get a colledge education and get a decent job. But you have to work hard in school (not be lazy), get good grades (have at least average intelligence), and have that piece of paper called a dipolma.
Again, loans mean you're taking on a debt load before even knowing that you'll earn enough to repay it. Loans=bad.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
