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Old 07-20-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: SWFL
21,575 posts, read 18,223,622 times
Reputation: 18914

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[quote=Escort Rider;30577917]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
When this situation first arose, I tried and tried to comfort daughter with tears and soothing words. SHE's the one who brought up "why are you so upset? You didn't even like him". That is when I reminded her of all she had told me and made me not like him and I was so upset because she was hurting so much. So, chuck you Farley. Judgemental much?



Ha! Now you've changed your story to make it sound better. Go back and re-read your two previous posts. What is the truth? Your situation vis vis your daughter seems very fluid, subject to change to fit your rhetoric of the moment.

Maybe because I omitted the time sequence of that horrible day. Have a nice day.

 
Old 07-20-2013, 12:08 PM
 
115 posts, read 130,641 times
Reputation: 117
[quote=Delahanty;30577535]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Up to a few years back Roman Catholic leaders denied church burial rites to members of the flock who took their own lives...




"Up to a few years back?" "Roman Catholic leaders [emphasis mine] denied church burial rites?" Surely, you jest. This sounds like another cheap attack on Catholics that, interestingly, singles them out among other Christian religions that once also frowned upon suicides, but that's another story.

First of all, RC "leaders" are in no position to "deny" burial in local cemeteries. Also, the RC church long ago jettisoned its view of suicide. As a matter of fact, the Roman Catholic church has always considered the mental state of the deceased in cases of suicide.
The mental state of the decreased in cases of suicide? I believe there is only one mental state at that point. The decision makes it clear. To assume they were in anything other than incredible amounts of pain and inner turmoil would be to lay claim to the wisdom of God. Something I hope our religious leaders do not believe they have attained.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,411 posts, read 2,009,331 times
Reputation: 3281
Money is utterly worthless in combating feelings of grief, worthlessness, and wholesale misery. It also won't help if your family is incapable of accepting your sexuality (I know this from experience). I'll give you a portrayal of depression and suicidal ideation (ie fantasising about you're suicide). You wake up feeling like s*** wishing for a final end and rest. After that lovely wake-up, you attend to your daily life which ranges from variably fulfilling to to a meaningless distraction. Some thought or another may haunt you. (Some wrongdoing, personal failure, loss of a loved one etc). At night, you are plagued with insomnia and more of those haunting thoughts. Welcome to my world.

I had a friend who killed himself at 19. He stayed at the college town during the summer and killed himself quietly in the night. He was bipolar. I was shocked, then angry (very, very briefly), sad that he never reached out to me, and finally now he is one of the "ghosts" who follow me in memory.


Your friend's illness(es) defeated the perseverance of his parents, the family fortune, and a legion of mental health professionals (by the sound of it). If those actors couldn't "fix" the issue, how the hell could a tormented 20-something be expected to "do it" all on his own. Not to patronise your friend's memory or suffering, but "All the king's horses and all the king's men..." does have some proverbial utility here.

Mourn him and love what you can of his memory. He judged himself, and did so harshly. Let the memory of his shortcomings pass away with his physical body.

Last edited by Amelorn; 07-20-2013 at 12:43 PM..
 
Old 07-20-2013, 01:38 PM
 
8,890 posts, read 7,390,523 times
Reputation: 11859
Funerals aren't for the dead. They're for the living. It's a way for those who were close to the person who passed away to come together for emotional support. Besides tears, there is sometimes laughter as you tell funny stories involving the one who passed away. Most times, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's not the case with mental illness. If left untreated, it will get worse. For centuries, mental illness was a source of shame and insults. This led to many people not even attempting to get help. If help is sought early, many of these problems could be averted. Those who have such mental problems don't want to be that way. They want to live a normal life. But there are things within their mind that are beyond their control that torments them. Try to remember them as they were before the illness took them.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
2,768 posts, read 2,322,020 times
Reputation: 4957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
A good friend of mine committed suicide unexpectedly Friday. He was severely mentally ill, but came from a reasonably well-to-do family, never had to work, never experienced any financial insecurity of any kind. He made an invalid suicide attempt in February by shooting himself in the eye with rat shot which resulted in numerous, expensive eye surgeries.

Over the years, he was a bad drug addict and alcoholic, and eventually deteriorated to the point where he had to be supervised to eat, bathe, etc. He was just 27 when he died.

I have a hard time bringing myself to go to the visitation of such a man tomorrow. He cruelly did this act without any regard to the feelings of family and friends. His family has put up with his garbage for years. His friends did what they could with him, but he gradually became a burden at almost infantile levels.

Do you believe that a suicide when life is so materially easy is even worthy of acknowledging with a memorial service?
His family deserves your condolences and his death IS worth mourning. You do sound very angry at him. He was ILL, had a sickness. As for financial security, that is NOT a cure for mental illness....I know you sound angry and helpless, but realize your friend was sick.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
54,406 posts, read 38,395,918 times
Reputation: 26819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
A good friend of mine committed suicide unexpectedly Friday. He was severely mentally ill, but came from a reasonably well-to-do family, never had to work, never experienced any financial insecurity of any kind. He made an invalid suicide attempt in February by shooting himself in the eye with rat shot which resulted in numerous, expensive eye surgeries.

Over the years, he was a bad drug addict and alcoholic, and eventually deteriorated to the point where he had to be supervised to eat, bathe, etc. He was just 27 when he died.

I have a hard time bringing myself to go to the visitation of such a man tomorrow. He cruelly did this act without any regard to the feelings of family and friends. His family has put up with his garbage for years. His friends did what they could with him, but he gradually became a burden at almost infantile levels.

Do you believe that a suicide when life is so materially easy is even worthy of acknowledging with a memorial service?
Despite material goods, do you really believe someone who faced such personal demons had an 'easy' life?

If they were truly a 'good friend', of course their life is worth acknowledging regardless of the manner of their death.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 06:12 PM
 
8,021 posts, read 6,252,009 times
Reputation: 12004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
A good friend of mine committed suicide unexpectedly Friday. He was severely mentally ill, but came from a reasonably well-to-do family, never had to work, never experienced any financial insecurity of any kind. He made an invalid suicide attempt in February by shooting himself in the eye with rat shot which resulted in numerous, expensive eye surgeries.

Over the years, he was a bad drug addict and alcoholic, and eventually deteriorated to the point where he had to be supervised to eat, bathe, etc. He was just 27 when he died.

I have a hard time bringing myself to go to the visitation of such a man tomorrow. He cruelly did this act without any regard to the feelings of family and friends. His family has put up with his garbage for years. His friends did what they could with him, but he gradually became a burden at almost infantile levels.

Do you believe that a suicide when life is so materially easy is even worthy of acknowledging with a memorial service?
You say this guy was friend of yours and now you don't think you can go to his visitation just because he killed himself?

Dude that's the anger talking. It's perfectly understandable for you to feel angry.

If I was good friends with someone in life and they die then I will go to whatever service they have for them. How they died doesn't matter whether by their own hand or something else, our friendship is what mattered most. So of course I'm going to mourn.

Your anger towards him committing suicide is already a way of mourning, whether you go to his visitation or not. You feel angry because you cared about him. If you didn't care about him you wouldn't be angry.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 06:12 PM
 
6,951 posts, read 8,914,517 times
Reputation: 7823
I also fail to understand how the OP can say on the one hand that the person was mentally ill and that the family had to "put up with his garbage," as if he were NOT mentally ill. Which is it?
 
Old 07-21-2013, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
21,113 posts, read 15,431,417 times
Reputation: 24010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
I also fail to understand how the OP can say on the one hand that the person was mentally ill and that the family had to "put up with his garbage," as if he were NOT mentally ill. Which is it?
Not trying to be crass, but there are many mentally ill people out there who do not shoot portions of their toes off, shoot their eye with rat shot, and have many periods of forced inpatient treatment. These were not lethal actions - they were merely designed to attract attention. As I said last night, I don't understand the rage directed towards me. I'm not the person doing these off the wall things. I'm reporting what I saw, giving my opinion on it, and yet most people on this thread are on some moral high horse against me. I think I said all I need to say about this last night.

A person can be mentally ill and still put out plenty of garbage. Just because you're sick doesn't absolve you from guilt on the actions you take. It really disturbs me how few people in this thread seem to understand that concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Despite material goods, do you really believe someone who faced such personal demons had an 'easy' life?

If they were truly a 'good friend', of course their life is worth acknowledging regardless of the manner of their death.
Yes, he did have an easier life than many people. He had the best resources at his disposal and many extra chances to get things right. He was coddled by his mother and grandmothers. Instead of attempting to impose some structure on his life, which he desperately could have used, they just let him run over them. Those who don't have his level of material wealth often can't finance those second chances. There are many, many healthy, functioning people in this country that yearn for the chances he had due to his wealth, but they will never have them. He squandered the resources he had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nowitsshowtime View Post
I can't read this anymore. Did it ever occur to you (OP) that this person turned to drugs to try to find happiness in his miserable life, he couldn't hold down a job due to whatever made him so miserable, and then drugs. No it doesn't sound logical to you, or to most of society, but I've seen it happen.

Don't try to fully understand mental illness, just be aware it exists, and be happy you don't fully understand it or have to deal with it. There are kids in third world countries that don't even have a bathroom, or showers, or food, and they are happier than some of the people in this country that have it all. Make sense? No it doesn't, I don't understand it all either, but mental illness and the stress that comes with it to drive someone that off, to suicide, is real and unfortunate. Try to understand, be compassionate, and hope it never turns out to be you. NO ONE that is healthy and sound wants to kill themselves.
My belief is that he placed little value on work. I think part of this was due to his mother encouraging all these extracurricular activities that ultimately proved worthless in the real world. By early college, he never had taken the little jobs the rest of us had. This placed him behind. I don't know whether he was encouraged not to work, whether he simply didn't care, or felt paralyzed because he was behind - but in any event, he never did squat in the real world. He never even made a good faith effort. It wasn't like he took on a job and failed at it - he never took the job to begin with. That's what drives my rage.

When people seem to accept his lifestyle as viable, a lifestyle of doing nothing, never making an effort, and constant apologizing for this lifestyle, it's really disturbing. If he tried and failed, that would have been better than not trying at all. As far as I know, he never tried to work, never did anything outside the home on a regular, structured basis. I believe he needed structure, whether that came through work or not. A defined schedule, a place to be, and things to do may have given him a sense of responsibility and obligation that he didn't have in his rather aimless existence. I find it very pitiful that many posters are blaming me for trying to emphasize a lifestyle that used to be defined as virtue to this guy.

Last edited by Serious Conversation; 07-21-2013 at 02:19 AM..
 
Old 07-21-2013, 02:19 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 15,933,769 times
Reputation: 7531
This is the Grief forum.

The visitation the OP was concerned about is long over - I really don't think this is the appropriate forum for a suicide debate. Closed for mod review and consideration of a forum change.
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