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Old 09-15-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,329,998 times
Reputation: 7232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
if you are in fear for your life, or when protecting another life, then you are justified. if you live in a castle doctrine state, then anytime someone crosses the threshold of your home, then deadly force is authorized.
Castle Doctrine of course has some specific exceptions. It isn't quite as simple as you've said here.

Everyone should review their own state laws.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,329,998 times
Reputation: 7232
As far as intervening to help someone else? I've decided it's never a good idea. You'll remember I said in an earlier post that you have to think of EVERYTHING before you walk out your door with a gun on your hip. The fact is, you just don't know all the facts when you walk up on something like that and not knowing the facts is where you'll get in trouble.

Say you're in the back of a store, it's late at night and there aren't many people there. You hear a scuffle up front. You make your way up there and you see a guy pointing a gun at the cashier. Do you intervene? Turns out, the guy pointing the gun was a plain-clothes detective who'd just found a fugitive he'd been tracking. You just pointed your carry piece at a cop and aided a fugitive to escape from jusitice.........

Also, when you just walk up on something, you don't know who the initial aggressor was. If you walk up on some guy beating the living daylights out of another guy in a parking lot, the guy who's getting his arse beat could have been the initial aggressor and the the victim got the better of him and was in the process of defending himself when you decided to be a hero and pulled your gun.

Bottom line? You carry a gun to defend yourself, and that's it. Anything other than that, you're well-advised to just be a good witness, or try other methods of helping that don't include using lethal force.
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Old 09-15-2014, 05:39 PM
 
8,148 posts, read 5,716,856 times
Reputation: 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
In most states, that is brandishing, or threatening and is illegal. If you are going to pull it, pull it. If you show it, and don't pull it, they'll probably take it away from you. You have totally lost the element of surprise and that is what cc is all about.
Yes, that is what I was taught as well. I don't really see a gray area where brandishing would be appropriate. If you need your gun out of fear of serious bodily injury for oneself or someone else, then pull the gun and aim it, otherwise get the hell out of the area. Ideally, the thing to do is command the aggressor to stop whatever they are doing so as to neutralize the threat without the use of force. Obviously, this is not always possible.

As I stated previously, based on the video evidence showing the perps outnumbering the victims during the beating, I don't see criminal charges being filed for unholstering or using the weapon. The likelihood of civil litigation would be the bigger concern.
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:22 PM
 
1,302 posts, read 1,224,639 times
Reputation: 2742
In Tennessee you can unholster your weapon if you fear for your life or feel threaten. Making that decision is a hard one to call.
Info links ....... Others available on line...

Handgunlaw.us

Legallyarmed.com The Internet Site For Legallyarmed Law Abiding Citizens

The Law
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:19 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,039,749 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
As far as intervening to help someone else? I've decided it's never a good idea. You'll remember I said in an earlier post that you have to think of EVERYTHING before you walk out your door with a gun on your hip. The fact is, you just don't know all the facts when you walk up on something like that and not knowing the facts is where you'll get in trouble.

Say you're in the back of a store, it's late at night and there aren't many people there. You hear a scuffle up front. You make your way up there and you see a guy pointing a gun at the cashier. Do you intervene? Turns out, the guy pointing the gun was a plain-clothes detective who'd just found a fugitive he'd been tracking. You just pointed your carry piece at a cop and aided a fugitive to escape from jusitice.........

Also, when you just walk up on something, you don't know who the initial aggressor was. If you walk up on some guy beating the living daylights out of another guy in a parking lot, the guy who's getting his arse beat could have been the initial aggressor and the the victim got the better of him and was in the process of defending himself when you decided to be a hero and pulled your gun.

Bottom line? You carry a gun to defend yourself, and that's it. Anything other than that, you're well-advised to just be a good witness, or try other methods of helping that don't include using lethal force.
If you can't tell the difference between a robbery and a plain clothes officer arresting a fugitive(a rare thing indeed) then you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:19 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,554,063 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Castle Doctrine of course has some specific exceptions. It isn't quite as simple as you've said here.

Everyone should review their own state laws.


very true, in some states the criminal has to actually go into your home, while in others trespassing with the intent to commit a felony is enough reason to use deadly force.
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Old 09-16-2014, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,329,998 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
If you can't tell the difference between a robbery and a plain clothes officer arresting a fugitive(a rare thing indeed) then you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun.
If you're so sure of yourself, do whatever you think is best. I'll do what I think is best for me. I'm not carrying a gun to be a hero, I'm carrying one to protect myself if need be.

Just keep in mind things aren't always what they seem.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:29 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,039,749 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
If you're so sure of yourself, do whatever you think is best. I'll do what I think is best for me. I'm not carrying a gun to be a hero, I'm carrying one to protect myself if need be.

Just keep in mind things aren't always what they seem.
I'm just saying. Robberies of businesses involve a criminal holding up a clerk, usually yelling orders to open the register and such things. Robber is usually wearing a hoodie/mask, although not always. Their body language is totally different then a officer arresting someone, tone of voice is different, etc. They are just very different scenarios, if you would have trouble differentiating them then you should do some thinking on the subject so that you are better prepared if you find yourself in the middle of an armed robbery.
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,457,801 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Years ago, I was contracted by the Gov to transfer our ex Navy ships to foreign countries. Part of the deal was to bring the foreign crew over so we could train them on the ship while we overhauled it.

One morning, one of my foreign students didn't show up for muster. I started checking around and found him in Jail. I was lucky I didn't fin him in the morgue.

The day before, he was down town seeing the sights and wandered up to a bank robbery. Two things to remember, there are no firearms owned by civilians in his country, and there is no such thing as a plain clothed cop. Their officers wear. prestene uniforms and are very. recognizable.

The teller in the bank had pressed a silent alarm so cops were waiting when the bad guys came out. A gun fight ensued. My student took cover. When the gun fight was winding down, a plain clothed cop was holstering his weapon when he noticed my student with his camera out. Thinking he might have pictures (a couple of the bad guys escaped in a car) he run over to the student. The student, not knowing he was a cop, and being a martial arts expert, field stripped the cop. I mean, the student just saw him shooting across the street and didnt know who he was shooting at. When he field stripped the cop, a Uniformed officer saw it, so thinking the student was part of the robbery, he run over with weapon drawn. Thankfully, he was uniformed because once the student saw a uniform, he stopped what he was doing, thinking the uniform would arrest this guy he just disarmed.

Imagine the confusion for the student when he was cuffed and taken into custody. What little English he knew, was now gone. The jail couldn't figure out why he wouldn't talk. I was able to take one of my interpretors down and get it all straighted out.

The point of this is that things could have gone terribly wrong for the student and all he thought was that he was doing what was right. When you wander into a scenario, you don't know what is going on and by the time you figure it out, the element of surprise with your cc has passed. Be real careful defending others, things don't always appear as they are.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,686,291 times
Reputation: 4241
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
I'm just saying. Robberies of businesses involve a criminal holding up a clerk, usually yelling orders to open the register and such things. Robber is usually wearing a hoodie/mask, although not always. Their body language is totally different then a officer arresting someone, tone of voice is different, etc. They are just very different scenarios, if you would have trouble differentiating them then you should do some thinking on the subject so that you are better prepared if you find yourself in the middle of an armed robbery.
Nit-picking a hypothetical example is ridiculous and the very definition of pedantic. It does nothing to further the discussion.

Just as WS88 said, I carry a concealed weapon for the defense of myself and of my loved ones. I will, however, concede that I may expand that to include, "and in defense of life of others" in a situation that is completely and obviously a life-and-death situation where an innocent will die if I don't intervene. In WS88's example, I would quietly back up, draw my weapon, and observe, with a 99% chance I do nothing but hang around to give a statement and description to the police. A few dollars from a cash register isn't worth a death.
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