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Old 02-02-2015, 07:45 PM
 
6,064 posts, read 2,791,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Thank you Sir for sharing. I wish I was born 40 years earlier.

I'll have to look into the controlled feed thing. Is it a bolt lockup like an AR?
No, completely different from an AR. A Mauser style bolt (also seen on pre-'64 Model 70's among others) has a large "claw" extractor on the side of the bolt. As the bolt comes forward, the moment the cartridge leaves the magazine, the rim of the cartridge is caught under the extractor, and the cartridge is held in place against the face of the bolt, all the way into the chamber. It doesn't matter how the gun is oriented - upside down, right side up, or any way in between, the cartridge is held to the bolt face.

Hold a push feed gun, like a Rem 700 upside down, and slowly work the bolt. You stand a very good chance of the cartridge falling out rather than being chambered.

Check out the picture:



This is a Mauser bolt with claw extractor.

These are push feed bolts. Notice the tiny extractor. The cartridge won't be held by those extractors until the bolt is fully closed. Not a problem with a target or non dangerous game rifle. Might be a BIG issue if hunting something that can easily kill you.

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Old 02-02-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: San Diego
34,935 posts, read 31,961,540 times
Reputation: 19407
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
No, completely different from an AR. A Mauser style bolt (also seen on pre-'64 Model 70's among others) has a large "claw" extractor on the side of the bolt. As the bolt comes forward, the moment the cartridge leaves the magazine, the rim of the cartridge is caught under the extractor, and the cartridge is held in place against the face of the bolt, all the way into the chamber. It doesn't matter how the gun is oriented - upside down, right side up, or any way in between, the cartridge is held to the bolt face.

Hold a push feed gun, like a Rem 700 upside down, and slowly work the bolt. You stand a very good chance of the cartridge falling out rather than being chambered.

Check out the picture:



This is a Mauser bolt with claw extractor.

These are push feed bolts. Notice the tiny extractor. The cartridge won't be held by those extractors until the bolt is fully closed. Not a problem with a target or non dangerous game rifle. Might be a BIG issue if hunting something that can easily kill you.
Thanks for that. Most of my bolt guns are newer and none have that. I wonder why they switched from such a logical design.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,820 posts, read 15,435,170 times
Reputation: 12085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Thanks for that. Most of my bolt guns are newer and none have that. I wonder why they switched from such a logical design.
Mainly because they are cheaper to manufacture and additionally some are smoother than old claw extractors, and another interesting fact is that you can load and fire a single round by feeding directly into the chamber ( not picking up from magazine ).

If you single load into an old mauser style, the round sits on top of the claw and when you fire, you can deform the extractor. You have to remember to always load into the magazine and cycle a round, never direct feed into the chamber then close the bolt.

Personally I only own center fire bolt actions built on the 98 Belgian Mauser or simar 'claw extractor' actions. I own 3.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,820 posts, read 15,435,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
.....Hey Threerun............
I appreciate your comments, and I sincerely hope (it is understood) that some of my Detailed posts related to my hunting experiences are not written to impress anyone, but rather to pass on information and certain aspects of hunting certain animals and specific info for certain areas (like Kodiak) that I acquired over a period of many years.
I believe you are aware that for the better part of almost 40 years, I had to travel to various parts of Alaska as part of my job----which was to work with the "Field and Home-Office engineers and Project Managers" that were involved with large-scale mining projects for: Gold, Silver, Lead, Zinc & Coal.........With out this type of job, I would never have been able to acquire the contacts, friendships and first-hand information that ultimately resulted in my (9) hunting and fishing trips spread over a period of time from 1979 to 2000.


After retirement in Dec 1993, I took an additional (3) (vacation-type) trips to Alaska with my late wife which included one of 3 months (going into the area where the N/W Yukon touches the Northwest Territories at the end of the Canol Road), and one of 5 1/2 weeks (via different Ferrys) through the entire length of "SOUTH-EAST-ALASKA" from Prince Rupert, B.C. to Skagway, AK (including camping along the Cassiar Hwy and outside of Ketchikan and on Wrangell Island; and outside of the towns of: Petersburg, Juneau, Sitka & Haines.
Being the avid hunter and outdoorsman you are, if you have any aspirations of going to Alaska to partake of what it has to offer..........I would do it "sooner rather than later", if at all possible.
You bet I want to go! My sister lives in AK and honestly I don't know why I haven't done it sooner. I will talk to you, for sure. Thanks Griz!
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:06 PM
 
19,257 posts, read 17,399,801 times
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My question is can you even hunt with a semi auto in Alaska? In Pa you can't but I know some states allow it. I'd just think Alaska would take its hunting regulations very seriously.
I had a 35 Remington which could be used for black bear or elk in Pa. For bear( or moose) defense in Alaska my choice would be a 444 Marlin in a lever action or a hard hitting 45 Colt round in a revolver. There are many good choices.
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
14,162 posts, read 44,716,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
I don't understand all the hate for the 7.62x39mm caliber in this thread and the AK platform in general. It's certainly not a toy and in certain configurations can and will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c
I certainly don't "hate" the AK platform, I'm just trying to point out that the 7.62X39 is, essentially, a Russified 30-30. I'm sure some steel-nerved old Sourdoughs have taken big bears with it, but not stopping a charge. But, these people really, really know how to hunt. Inuit hunters kill polar bear with .22 Hornets all the time - but, again, these guys really know how to hunt, they pick their shot, and, they *really* know how to hunt. They could have like 3 PhD's in hunting!

Don't take my word for it, see if any Alaska bear guide will take your business if you insist on hunting with a cartridge in this power class. See if you can find a guide who uses an AK as a backup rifle. I doubt you will find even one. Then ask about a good lever-action 45-70 like Threerun suggested in what, the third or so post? See how many note that they use on themselves.

Like so many on here, you ask a question, but actually seem to be seeking affirmation of what you think you already know.

But, go ahead, don't listen to experienced hunters on here, many who actually live in Alaska or other bear country. Go on into bear country with your AK.

You *will* listen to the bear, trust me.
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:33 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Well, just as I was saying all along.....an AK can kill a bear in Alaska. Here is at least one documented case of it. ^

An AK-74 5.45x39mm no less as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I certainly don't "hate" the AK platform, I'm just trying to point out that the 7.62X39 is, essentially, a Russified 30-30. I'm sure some steel-nerved old Sourdoughs have taken big bears with it, but not stopping a charge. But, these people really, really know how to hunt. Inuit hunters kill polar bear with .22 Hornets all the time - but, again, these guys really know how to hunt, they pick their shot, and, they *really* know how to hunt. They could have like 3 PhD's in hunting!

Don't take my word for it, see if any Alaska bear guide will take your business if you insist on hunting with a cartridge in this power class. See if you can find a guide who uses an AK as a backup rifle. I doubt you will find even one. Then ask about a good lever-action 45-70 like Threerun suggested in what, the third or so post? See how many note that they use on themselves.

Like so many on here, you ask a question, but actually seem to be seeking affirmation of what you think you already know.

But, go ahead, don't listen to experienced hunters on here, many who actually live in Alaska or other bear country. Go on into bear country with your AK.

You *will* listen to the bear, trust me.
A AK-74 WILL KILL a bear on a charge. That's 5.45x39mm.......NOT 7.62x39mm as found in the AKM or AK-47.


Hell a 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) killed a man 1,367 yards away.

A charging bear inside 300 yards will be a greasy stain on the mattress........
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:43 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,846 times
Reputation: 70
Don't take my word for it.....




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GcfvMQKCdU
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,820 posts, read 15,435,170 times
Reputation: 12085
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Don't take my word for it.....





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GcfvMQKCdU
Why do continue to compare human targets to bears? Have you any sense of the physiological differences? It really appears you are simply trolling for no real purpose here.

Please, please- airdrop your GI Joe butt onto Kodiak with an AK. I want to hear the resulting news story!
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
34,935 posts, read 31,961,540 times
Reputation: 19407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Why do continue to compare human targets to bears? Have you any sense of the physiological differences? It really appears you are simply trolling for no real purpose here.

Please, please- airdrop your GI Joe butt onto Kodiak with an AK. I want to hear the resulting news story!
I'd watch that movie.
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