Viable ways to make Hawaii affordable? (Honolulu: unemployment, college, median income)

[Manarii_HNL]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Next you'll be telling us they are all content at $15/hr and enjoy the up to a 2 hour commute each direction.

You can assure me all you want. Some do it. Many on a regular basis. No way.

Maybe the $15 may be sufficient for them. I don't really ask their expenses or salaries, nor have I ever asked if they enjoy the ride. I certainly would not. But a bus pass costs the same if you take it to Bishop St, from Haleiwa or from King & Ward St. These people, for the most part, were born and raised in those areas. They may either live with family or live in their passed down family home. But they go where the jobs are, or a job that will maybe help benefit them in the future, unless they want to work at Foodland or some Haleiwa restaurant. Not everyone has the option or desire to move into town. I certainly also know many more who who commuted into town each day from Wahiawa and Mililani which is a bit closer, but still a commute.

The more I read your posts, the more I realize how little you may have in contact with the "average" Hawaii resident (apart from meeting them for cocktails at Dukes in Waikiki during happy hour).

I'm really just going by my experiences and I'm sure you are going by yours. I merely commented on this comment from you: " The North Shore is great on Oahu - you just can't commute from there into Honolulu. " Yes, you can. Would I want to? No. I never said is was a great situation, but yes, you can commute. it is done.

There really isn't any need for your snide attacks. But I think I ll stick around here for awhile

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Manarii_HNL

Maybe the $15 may be sufficient for them. I don't really ask their expenses or salaries, nor have I ever asked if they enjoy the ride. I certainly would not. But a bus pass costs the same if you take it to Bishop St, from Haleiwa or from King & Ward St. These people, for the most part, were born and raised in those areas. They may either live with family or live in their passed down family home. But they go where the jobs are, or a job that will maybe help benefit them in the future, unless they want to work at Foodland or some Haleiwa restaurant. Not everyone has the option or desire to move into town. I certainly also know many more who who commuted into town each day from Wahiawa and Mililani which is a bit closer, but still a commute.

The more I read your posts, the more I realize how little you may have in contact with the "average" Hawaii resident (apart from meeting them for cocktails at Dukes in Waikiki during happy hour).

I'm really just going by my experiences and I'm sure you are going by yours. I merely commented on this comment from you: " The North Shore is great on Oahu - you just can't commute from there into Honolulu. " Yes, you can. Would I want to? No. I never said is was a great situation, but yes, you can commute. it is done.

There really isn't any need for your snide attacks. But I think I ll stick around here for awhile

Dukes Happy Hour?????? Do you even live here? There is no happy hour at Dukes. At least pick a place that has one.

Here's the thing - I think you've convinced yourself you are the "average" Oahu resident. At least I know I'm not and that I'm on the higher end of the range. Your $15/hr jobs in your 40's is neither typical, average - or anything close. Most people don't live in cockroach infested apartments. Most have a kitchen. Most can buy shoes when they really need them. Most haven't spent the past several years working only temp jobs and then think they've gotten blacklisted from the temp agencies. There isn't anything even remotely typical about your lifestyle. If you think you are living anything close to an average Oahu life after all these years then you are really in denial.

[winkosmosis]

I think the norm in America now IS $15/hr in your 40s...

Edit: http://www.freeby50.com/2009/04/inco...lting-tax.html
40 to 44 years $62,578
45 to 49 years $64,802
Divide that $63k by 2 and you have $32k which is $16/hr

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

I think the norm in America now IS $15/hr in your 40s...

Edit: Income versus Age and resulting tax brackets | Free By 50
40 to 44 years $62,578
45 to 49 years $64,802
Divide that $63k by 2 and you have $32k which is $16/hr

Cmon Wink -

Your link refers to individuals - not households. It links to census households - but it refers to medians by individual. And that link that doesn't references Hawaii.

Even you - with all the stuff going on - make over $15/hr.

Anyway - lets talk about Hawaii - specifically Oahu.

Median household income is over $70K. You can't just divide that by 2.

Married households is about 50%. Single households about 31%. Divorced about 10% - cohabitating and other make the other.

With a large number of single/divorced households - you can't just divide by 2.

[SkyBob]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

I think the norm in America now IS $15/hr in your 40s...

Edit: Income versus Age and resulting tax brackets | Free By 50
40 to 44 years $62,578
45 to 49 years $64,802
Divide that $63k by 2 and you have $32k which is $16/hr

I don't understand your math. Divide that $63k by 2 and you get $32/hr.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by SkyBob

I don't understand your math. Divide that $63k by 2 and you get $32/hr.

The premise is faulty - the link references individual median income.

Had it been household income - he wanted to divide by 2 (again faulty as it doesn't take into account single households).

So, the logic was 63K salary / 2 = 31.5K salary = $15/hr but he didn't realize the link referred to individuals. Even if it didn't - you can't divide by 2.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

The premise is faulty - the link references individual median income.

Had it been household income - he wanted to divide by 2 (again faulty as it doesn't take into account single households).

So, the logic was 63K salary / 2 = 31.5K salary = $15/hr but he didn't realize the link referred to individuals. Even if it didn't - you can't divide by 2.

The link is referring to household income, which is why I divided by 2 to get individual income. It's not that accurate because not every household is dual income

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

The link is referring to household income, which is why I divided by 2 to get individual income. It's not that accurate because not every household is dual income

Where are you getting the link is referring to household income? All the link says is that the census has a site for households and goes on to break down median income by age bracket.

[HiloDiver]

It's too hard to simplify this.

Rent/mortgage is the same whether there is one person or four.

Utilities go up a bit with more than one occupant, but still...your math is too simplified.

Food costs are obviously larger the more people in a household...other costs too, medical, clothing, recreation, etc.

I see too many posts on the HI forums that try to simplify complicated economics into simple math. It can't be done. Every situation is a little different.

[Manarii_HNL]

lol. I don't know where you get the idea i live in a cockroach infested apartment. I pointed out in an earlier post that I first lived in a ground floor apartment with a courtyard and lots of foliage and plants, there were roaches but cleanliness had nothing to do with it. Little buggers slipped in thru the screen door.. I think you live in a world where most live in a high rise apartment and dont' normally hitch a ride uptown to your floor.
Where I live is very clean and safe. I do not have a kitchen, but I choose to live here. i have a ton of food choices outside my door and I love living like that. I could afford to pay $400-500 more in rent if I wanted, but I love eating out. I also love walking 4 blocks to Bishop St for work. And yes, I buy shoes. I just bought a pair at Aldo on Friday. These beautiful black oxford style buckled ones for about $110.00. I like to shop at Ross and avg a good $15-20 for pants and the same for shirts on an as needed basis, but I also love going to Iolani Shirts by Ala Moana or Noa Noa at Ward and buy shirts as well for about $75.00. Once in a while. Hawaii is not a place where you need to spent a lot of clothes vs. San Francisco where I spent an avg of $120 for pants and a good $350-500 for jackets and loved going to Churchs English shoes and dropping a good amount on a nice pair of wingtips. Not because prices were as so there, but I loved clothes, I loved ties, jackets and buying good quality ones. Ive certainly learned how to change my habits since moving here. I have no idea why you think i live in squalor. I eat out often and enjoy things. I may not dine at Alan Wongs or Morimoto's, but I do eat out. I have a pssion for vintage fragrances and buy once in awhile as well.

I bet you love that one. Next you'll be saying i'm living in a cockroach infested apartment eating beans out of a can admiring my shoes and spraying myself with cologne while looking for work. **snort**

Look, let me break it down for you,

$15/hr = $600 week or roughly $480 take home per week. (and yes health ins. is included)
$480x 4 = $1920 month take home

I also have a freelance gig which pays me about $50-80 week very small hours, but that money goes straight into savings and is not used for computing purposes below:

I pay Verizon about $82 for my Droid phone with extras.
I pay $42 for roadrunner internet
I pay $25 for netflix (still gotta lower that one as I dont use it as often)
I pay $29 for gym monthly membership
i have a commitment for undisclosed for $150 month.,

Minus those expenses, that leave me ~$1620 for food and rent.
I give myself a budget of $150 per week for food. That might be high for some or low for others.
What does that leave me for rent and savings? about $1000. (remembering my freelance gig already has money going straight into savings which is not touched)

now I can choose to spend out of that amount, a rent which suits me and my purposes. I specifically choose to live where I do and am able to save a nice amount each month. I could apply that to a much more higher priced apartmetn or share, but "I" choose not to. I am fine where I am at this point. i'm sure our good readers here will know how to interpret my costs vs. theirs ie. if they have student loans, credit card payments, alimony, child support und so weiter...

Sorry, there are many many just like me. Those having good decent honest jobs which require skill and thought, but that just don't pay like we hope. I stand by my assessment that you are out of touch with the average Oahu worker bee of all ages. So basically you're telling me, in your day to day life, that every single person you hand your credit card to, or hand a $20 bill to, in any of the stores, foodland, safeway, restaurants, bars etc on this island is certain to be making a wage higher than i am? or anybody over a certain age? I have no shame or no hesitations on sharing my experiences with anybody. I know from the private messages I've received that there are others like me on this board too but who just dont want to seemingly be discounted or ridiculed by you or others (well, just by you) for not earning what you feel is the norm. I am not an RN seeking a high paying job or an IT specialist being recruited from the mainland. i'm a person who lives here, makes my own choices, have made good decisions and bad decisions and have had my ups and downs like everybody else. Just to point out something, a Marketing Communications Specialist position at Mission Houses Museum went up a month or so ago. Perfectly respectable position. Somebody in their 40s or 50s would be proud to have that. Lots of duties and very detailed as well. Pay? $15.80 per hour! That is pretty normal for those types of roles. You may surround yourself with people working in professions such as doctors, nurses, ceo's, financial analysts etc., but i am assuring you (again) that this is not abnormal for Hawaii.

The questions that are being asked and that I am answering are 'Can we make it in hawaii'. Which i interpret as being "is it possible". i am not condoning any type of lifestyle, nor promising that someone will find an apartment, find a job, find that nirvana they are looking for. I'm just answering the possibilities. I believe those who read these boards are intelligent enough to look at all aspects and assess the risks involved in a move to Hawaii. if somebody chooses to plan and wait for ten years or if somebody decides on a whim to dive off the cliff of life and give it a try tomorrow, that is up to them. I'd like to think they have a plan b or c involved, but all i can give is what i have experienced.

in a nutshell, I never said life was perfect or bragged about my life here (as the viper alluded to earlier in another thread) and what I earned. I certainly don't earn what i hoped vs. what i earned in San francisco. But this is not uncommon with many positions. I am certainly in no way alone in my experiences here. But I want to clarify, (I am positive others have read my posts and get it) that I eat nicely, drink good coffee, go out for a drink here and there, I have cable,,I have a tv, I have a computer, a netbook, a good phone, I buy clothes once in a while (and shoes.. Nordstrom Rack is a great place for good shoes), have never seen a rat or a mouse in any place i've lived. Do not live in a roach infested place. I don't have a/c, but that certainly is no barometer for living in squalor or not.

I've written a lot again. And what I write is really for the benefit of others, as the person who is criticizing allows me to further give impressions that may or may not benefit someone, what he thinks of me has no bearing on my day to day life. I just like helping others to make an informed decision that is best for them. I think I am very clear in this post so in this thread, there is nothing more to add. Viper, take it away!