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"What you fail to recognize is that illegal immigrants actually contribute quite a bit to our economy. They do backbreaking work for very low (below minimum wage) pay. If you hate illegal immigration so much then you need to stop going to (most) fast food restaurants, be careful of the produce you buy, the wine you drink, etc." Unfortunately the negatives are exponentially greater then the positives, the costs of providing Spanish speaking classes teachers remedial tutoring, healthcare , lunches, prison care, and on and on and on. That is why Arizona and many others are trying to do something about it, it is called a immigration problem for a reason it is a problem, not a contribution to our economy. Yes we get some cheep labor out of the deal, but at a much greater expense then the low wages that benefit the consumer and business owners.
There is a quote button at the lower right hand of every post, it may make debates easier.
Health care is a problem in this country and it's not illegal immigrants that are causing it. They aren't abusing it anymore than a poor American citizen. In fact, I would venture to say that they are less likely to seek medical care when needed right away because of fears of deportation. As far as the low wages illegal immigrants pay, it's not just so you can have low prices, it's so companies can line their pockets more. Also, an illegal immigrant is going to be far less likely than an American citizen to unionize. They don't know their rights and they know they aren't in this country legally. They are essentially being exploited. Often times, they come here under false pretenses by the very companies that hire them for the labor they provide.
Arizona's illegal immigration bill is racist, pure and simple. There are, believe it or not, white illegal immigrants in this country, but the likelihood of a white, illegal immigrant being pulled over versus a darker skinned illegal immigrant is slim-to-none.
Arizona cannot win against LA. We can cut LA's power... they will just get the power from elsewhere. This threat might even cause them to end their contract with the Palo Verde facility. Who will lose out if LA does that? Arizona.
Arizona doesn't have the power to threaten LA with water restrictions, either. Despite the fact that a great deal of water in Southern California comes from Arizona, Southern California will ALWAYS receive a high percentage of Colorado River water.
Arizona WILL crumble to the ground soon if SB1070 isn't overturned soon. Arizona cannot handle all of the contracts it is about to lose.
Arizona cannot win against LA. We can cut LA's power... they will just get the power from elsewhere. This threat might even cause them to end their contract with the Palo Verde facility. Who will lose out if LA does that? Arizona.
Arizona doesn't have the power to threaten LA with water restrictions, either. Despite the fact that a great deal of water in Southern California comes from Arizona, Southern California will ALWAYS receive a high percentage of Colorado River water.
Arizona WILL crumble to the ground soon if SB1070 isn't overturned soon. Arizona cannot handle all of the contracts it is about to lose.
That, and Arizona doesn't own all of the water in the Colorado River. I think someone mentioned something about this earlier in this thread.
The Colorado river is the border between California & Arizona. To my knowledge, California does not get any water from Arizona since the Colorado river water is divided by the federal government and includes Nevada & Utah also. And Los Angeles gets the bulk of its water from the Mono lake and from reservoirs in northern California [the California aqueduct].
Strictly speaking for myself, there's no argument that the border needs to be closed as much as it is possible for security and population reasons.
Glad you agree on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur
The issue at hand is the Arizona law & how it can be abused. It seems quite clear that Latinos [of which I am one] are offended and very uncomfortable with the current legislation.
I just posted california's laws.. Namely state how #2 is any different that ariz. law .. What I don't get is people think they are saying something but they aren't really saying anything .. Read the friggin federal and state laws (namely CA's) ...
CA Cops Must Check Citizenship: Penal Code: 834b(1): "(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status." CHAPTER 5. ARREST, BY WHOM AND HOW MADE - Sections 833-851.90 - California Penal Code - California Code :: Justia
Can you please kindly respond to the above law that CAlifornia has? Is it racist? Should LA protest CAlifornia? Oh yeah, California doesn't enforce the law.. Much like the idiot in office who doesn't for political reasons. Thankfully other people are trying to get sh*t done and follow the law... Listen I am black.. I have been offended my whole life.. Get over it. If crap loads of africans were flooding Calif. and throwing the state into debt and causing issues.. I'd be the first one to sign up for a 1 week sweep of the whole state where all african americans have to prove their legal status.. DO it.. get it done w/ and move the f*** on. Just the other day I was stopped for b.s while in Saratoga on my motorcycle. The cop called in everything and even questioned me about specs of my bike.. As if it was stolen.. There are Dbags out there .. No doubt. However, the majority are not.. I got the f** over it. I didn't steal anything .. So, hey do what you have to do idiot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur
Arizona has the option to rewrite it's law or face judicial scrutiny [there are already many legal challenges to the law]. There's a better way of dealing with immigrants but it must start at the border.
At the border, i would like to see mexican authorities putting in some work as well.. At the border, if caught.. I'd like to see stricter punishments.. At the border I'd like to see the f'in army/reserve/etc which i pay my hard working tax dollars to .. to be there actually making sure my nation is safe... Once you are here .. However... and you are here illegally .. we need to catch those people to. As i recall, you have to have your id on you in any state... I'm african american.. I should know this.. if they are looking for a suspect and you can't ID yourself you will be lawfully brought downtown to do so... Simple solutions .. have your friggin ID on you.. Uncomfortable .. inconvenienced .. Hey, comfort costs money... For which the majority of the idiots crying about this law don't contribute to the tax base. You want convenience .. you get out there and volunteer your time to wrangle up all of your illegal friends in the U.S ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur
The boycotts are merely a way to express dissatisfaction with Arizona [similar to the Martin Luther King's birthday issue resulting in Arizona losing the Super Bowl]. Unfortunately, Arizona has a bit of a reputation of acting first and thinking later. It has cost them respect and revenue.
Listen.. I don't pay my freaking tax dollars to have some crackpot politician who wants to secure some more votes from the spanish population taking shots at an American state. That's not what I pay my taxes for .. If you or anyone else thinks its racist and unfair and all this unfounded nonsense ... that arizona is enforcing the law.. you go right ahead and protest and boycott like MLK did... California has a reputation of just being dumb as hell .. and liberal to an extent that it can't pay the bills... It costs Ariz. because this state is already overrun by a group of people who only care about their own and not the interest of the U.S ...
I am an African American .. #1 I am an American .... like other American citizens .. whether latino, mexican, japense, chinse, russian, german, or what have you. That's the big difference between some of us who give patriotism to the country they live in that affords them opportunity as opposed to those who are here .. living out their 'home' country's culture in the land of opportunity .. who care nothing more than to enrich themselves and people who look just like them.
There is a quote button at the lower right hand of every post, it may make debates easier.
Let me make use of it to make it easier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoll
Health care is a problem in this country and it's not illegal immigrants that are causing it. They aren't abusing it anymore than a poor American citizen. In fact, I would venture to say that they are less likely to seek medical care when needed right away because of fears of deportation.
Illegals use ER facilities and it costs hundreds of millions. You don't deny they do. I am not trying to argue the significance of how much they do impact costs... You do agree they do .. Here .. grabbed an actual number for you :
Illegal immigrants represent about 15 percent of the uninsured, but for various reasons (they're younger, they lack access to government programs) they don't represent 15 percent of uncompensated care; it's more like 10 percent, according to a study by the Center for Immigration Studies, a nonprofit research group. Using the Kaiser data, the center calculates that providing uncompensated care to illegal immigrants costs taxpayers $4.3 billion annually.
Their care costs money. Alright.. lets move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoll
As far as the low wages illegal immigrants pay, it's not just so you can have low prices, it's so companies can line their pockets more. Also, an illegal immigrant is going to be far less likely than an American citizen to unionize. They don't know their rights and they know they aren't in this country legally. They are essentially being exploited. Often times, they come here under false pretenses by the very companies that hire them for the labor they provide.
blah blah blah.. Meanwhile in china they work in 10x worse conditions : The fate of a generation of workers: Foxconn undercover fully translated (update: videos added) -- Engadget
Hosted by their own country... If person x isn't exploited here for profit .. he will be exploited elsewhere .. People have been exploited in sweatshops for decades to give you cheep products.. why don't why fly around the world trying to rescue em all...
Funny how people forget about america's history when it was progressing to the point where its at not. your for fathers busted their arses in labor intensive jobs.. It's called globalization .. Emergent economies...
But to the debate, this point brings nothing .... What is of note is that you have millions of americans sitting around not doing anything collecting unemployment stating there are no jobs ... TO me that supports kicking every last one of the illegal immigrants out of here and telling uppity americans to get to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoll
Arizona's illegal immigration bill is racist, pure and simple. There are, believe it or not, white illegal immigrants in this country, but the likelihood of a white, illegal immigrant being pulled over versus a darker skinned illegal immigrant is slim-to-none.
Lets cut the shat and start doing some fact checking .. I posted here twice the California law and the known law across the U.S .. If the police for you are a suspect in a crime or have reason to believe you committed one, or are in the act.. They have the right to ask you for your freaking ID. I am African American and have lived through this reality my whole life.. Simple solution .. As the law states, have your ID on you at all times. Is it that hard to carry an ID . I never leave home w/o it .. I need to drive.. i need it to verify my credit card usage.. What do I say to a merchant who asks me for my ID? Hell nah yo .. ayo wtf .. you being racist ? .. GTFO here man.
And in case, people can't read.. Here's CA law for the umpteenth time :
CA Cops Must Check Citizenship: Penal Code: 834b(1): "(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status." CHAPTER 5. ARREST, BY WHOM AND HOW MADE - Sections 833-851.90 - California Penal Code - California Code :: Justia
Is this racists? I feel like I am talking to a brick wall
The Colorado river is the border between California & Arizona. To my knowledge, California does not get any water from Arizona since the Colorado river water is divided by the federal government and includes Nevada & Utah also. And Los Angeles gets the bulk of its water from the Mono lake and from reservoirs in northern California [the California aqueduct].
*Fact check .. lets start getting some facts backing up our claims
Arizona cannot win against LA. We can cut LA's power... they will just get the power from elsewhere. This threat might even cause them to end their contract with the Palo Verde facility. Who will lose out if LA does that? Arizona.
Arizona doesn't have the power to threaten LA with water restrictions, either. Despite the fact that a great deal of water in Southern California comes from Arizona, Southern California will ALWAYS receive a high percentage of Colorado River water.
Arizona WILL crumble to the ground soon if SB1070 isn't overturned soon. Arizona cannot handle all of the contracts it is about to lose.
Lets take some lines :
Austin Beutner, general manager of the L.A. Department of Water and Power, said his city gets between 20 and 25 percent of its daily power from Arizona, some from the city's 5.7 percent ownership of the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station and the balance from its 21.2 percent share of the coal-fired Navajo Generating Station.
------- Pierce compared the city's actions to a shopper boycotting a grocery store - but then sneaking in the back door because it's the only place to buy a particular item.
--------
"If you're committed do it,'' Pierce said. "If you're not, then find a way to back out of this thing as soon as possible.''
.. And that's how I read Ariz.'s response.. Some dimwit moron in L.A is trying to score political points by trying to economically hurt a neighboring state in a time of recession that is trying to resolve something that is economically hurting them in a constructive manner ... If you are going to chant boycotting .. Be a man and really do it ... Don't pull political stunts like L.A did and try to make some big brewhaha about some foolish banning of x,y,z that has no material impact on Ariz.'s bottom dollar .. then trying to go out and chide others to jump in the bandwagon. Be a man about it .. Be honest about it and really boycott.
So Ariz. is politically saying to the Dou**bag in L.A : Touché
If I am wrong than point out where. Maybe you ought to look it up!
I have been pointing that out to people all night. I said fact check.. You make a statement.. Provide links to back it up. I didn't say you were wrong. I said provide facts supporting your statement like any person trying to make a convincible point would.
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Read the friggin federal and state laws (namely CA's) ...