U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-25-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,718,954 times
Reputation: 1642

Advertisements

Quote:
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
The goal of the bill is clear and I don't think anybody is debating it. There is clearly an illegal immigration problem in the country and more enter the state of Arizona than any other state. The whole issue of the bill is that they failed to clarify what the bolded section of this bill means. What determines "reasonable suspicion" ????

-A bumper sticker on the individual's car that says "Proud to be an illegal" ?
-An ID that states the individual's name is Bob Jones but the guy's wife in the passenger side keeps calling him Miroslav?

Joking aside, this is what bothers people, including myself, about the bill. It is basically targeting any foreigner by the way they look or speak, regardless of their immigration status. I don't understand why anyone would find that to be an acceptable practice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-25-2010, 09:49 AM
 
1,039 posts, read 662,015 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The goal of the bill is clear and I don't think anybody is debating it. There is clearly an illegal immigration problem in the country and more enter the state of Arizona than any other state. The whole issue of the bill is that they failed to clarify what the bolded section of this bill means. What determines "reasonable suspicion" ????

-A bumper sticker on the individual's car that says "Proud to be an illegal" ?
-An ID that states the individual's name is Bob Jones but the guy's wife in the passenger side keeps calling him Miroslav?

Joking aside, this is what bothers people, including myself, about the bill. It is basically targeting any foreigner by the way they look or speak, regardless of their immigration status. I don't understand why anyone would find that to be an acceptable practice.
The law states that race can be a reason to investigate someone, so as long as it is not the SOLE reason. So if you are Hispanic they will not necessarily pull you over, but if you are Hispanic and playing Mexican music, watch out!!

"The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,317 posts, read 11,551,724 times
Reputation: 6445
Uhm I think you forgot to add: and pulled over for a moving violation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,718,954 times
Reputation: 1642
Essentially, if you look like this you better have your immigration docs ready or prepare to be deported:

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,718,954 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdencaulfield View Post
The law states that race can be a reason to investigate someone, so as long as it is not the SOLE reason. So if you are Hispanic they will not necessarily pull you over, but if you are Hispanic and playing Mexican music, watch out!!

"The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
Exactly, so what determines "reasonable suspicion" then?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: West Palm Beach - Flamingo Park
14,729 posts, read 16,481,051 times
Reputation: 6313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Exactly, so what determines "reasonable suspicion" then?
"Reasonable suspicion" standard, by its very definition, is SUPPOSED to be a nebulous concept:

Reasonable suspicion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is Reasonable Suspicion?






BTW, I don't understand how anyone actually thinks it could or ever would get far enough that a person lawfully here would be "deported" by mistake.

If you're a citizen, that will be fairly easy to ascertain. If you're not, but are a legal resident, you are, already by federal law, REQUIRED to have your "papers" on you at all times.

Just because laws haven't been enforced in the past does not mean they aren't valid or can't be enforced at a moment's notice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Here
1,302 posts, read 786,545 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
The goal of the bill is clear and I don't think anybody is debating it. There is clearly an illegal immigration problem in the country and more enter the state of Arizona than any other state. The whole issue of the bill is that they failed to clarify what the bolded section of this bill means. What determines "reasonable suspicion" ????

-A bumper sticker on the individual's car that says "Proud to be an illegal" ?
-An ID that states the individual's name is Bob Jones but the guy's wife in the passenger side keeps calling him Miroslav?

Joking aside, this is what bothers people, including myself, about the bill. It is basically targeting any foreigner by the way they look or speak, regardless of their immigration status. I don't understand why anyone would find that to be an acceptable practice.
You cannot be pulled over simply because there is a suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant. There has to be some other reason to stop a person. If it is then judged that a person is likely an illegal immigrant, then law enforcement can investigate further. It is the same standard common in most areas when there is a suspicion of illegal drugs, illegal firearms, and a number of other illegalities.

If you think that law enforcement will simply manufacture a reason to stop a suspicious person, then that is a simple mistrust of the police to follow the letter of the law. If that is the case then we might as well disarm the police, disband the judicial system, and become a society of vigilantes.

Last edited by GalileoSmith; 05-25-2010 at 12:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,718,954 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
You cannot be pulled over simply because there is a suspicion that you are an illegal immigrant. There has to be some other reason to stop a person. If it is then judged that a person is likely an illegal immigrant, then law enforcement can investigate further. It is the same standard common in most areas when there is a suspicion of illegal drugs, illegal firearms, and a number of other illegalities.

If you think that law enforcement will simply manufacture a reason to stop a suspicious person, then that is a simple mistrust of the police to follow the letter of the law. If that is the case then we might as well disarm the police, disband the judicial system, and become a society of vigilantes.
You're avoiding my question, how would it be judged that a person is likely an illegal immigrant?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach - Flamingo Park
14,729 posts, read 16,481,051 times
Reputation: 6313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You're avoiding my question, how would it be judged that a person is likely an illegal immigrant?
Not having ID will probably be a good first step.

Not speaking English is probably another good indication.

Not being able to give an address is a good indicator as well.


You know how we pull old grandmas aside at the airport so that everyone can pretend the "real world" operates differently than it really does? Well, I suppose the police dept. can make sure it subjects some Michael Smiths and Sarah Cooks to rigorous "status" questioning if that makes you feel better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,933 posts, read 8,718,954 times
Reputation: 1642
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
If you're a citizen, that will be fairly easy to ascertain. If you're not, but are a legal resident, you are, already by federal law, REQUIRED to have your "papers" on you at all times.

Just because laws haven't been enforced in the past does not mean they aren't valid or can't be enforced at a moment's notice.
I just went to the USCIS website to the section regarding Rights and Responsibilities of a Green Card Holder (Permanent Resident) and this is what it states:

Quote:
Rights and Responsibilities of a Green Card Holder (Permanent Resident)


Your Rights As A Permanent Resident

As a permanent resident (green card holder), you have the right to:

Live permanently in the United States provided you do not commit any actions that would make you removable under immigration law
Work in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing. (Please note that some jobs will be limited to U.S. citizens for security reasons)
Be protected by all laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions
Your Responsibilities as a Permanent Resident

As a permanent resident, you are:

Required to obey all laws of the United States the states, and localities
Required to file your income tax returns and report your income to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service and state taxing authorities
Expected to support the democratic form of government and not to change the government through illegal means
Required, if you are a male age 18 through 25, to register with the Selective Service

Last updated: 02/05/2010
Source: USCIS - Rights and Responsibilities of a Permanent Resident

I don't see under the responsibilities section that a permanent resident is required to carry their permanent resident card with them at all times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top