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Old 07-23-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Not yet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
imanway....does Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others like her lie?

who they are ?
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:40 AM
 
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A lie is permissible:

for bringing reconciliation amongst persons

It would not be hard, it would appear to me, to interpret that as being permissible to lie to non - muslims in order to persuade them to become muslims and thereby bring 'reconciliation' between the believer and the unbeliever.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold
imanway....does Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others like her lie?

Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
who they are ?
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Dutch feminist and author of such works as Submission and The Caged Virgin. Born in 1969 in Somalia, she was raised there and in Kenya, before fleeing to the Netherlands in order to escape an arranged marriage. Although she spent most of her life as a devout Muslim, after the attacks on the World Trade Centers in America on September 11th, she re-examined her beliefs. After reading Atheistisch Manifest by Herman Philipse, she became an outspoken atheist. Until recently, she held a seat in the Dutch Parliament, the Tweede Kamer. [1]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Not surprisingly, the non - right - wing biased Wiki is much better.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I realize not all Muslims are radicals, but with the practice of taqiyya how can you tell which are telling the truth? I have seen undercover videos taken in Mosques of so called moderate Muslims....In public they preach moderation and peace, and say they respect others beliefs, but in the Mosque when they think they are out of the public eye they preach hatred.

I'm sure they are not all the same, but if you want to say I'm bigoted or biased against the fanatical faction of Islam, so be it.

Not all scorpions will sting you, but I do not trust them and leave them all alone because I cannot tell which one will sting and which ones won't. ...I guess you could say that I'm bigoted about scorpions too.

What do you want more than that? enough me that a non-Muslim Respect me..

I do not need to love me as long as one is treating me fairly and RESPECT

Muslims in the mosque worship God they not thinking about what you think of intolerance and hate Against them ...


you Must get out from the cave of intolerance and Bias controlled of you

No matter how your impression and concept Which pick it ,stay as you are I do not care at all
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,801 posts, read 19,900,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
who they are ?
Iwould suggest you find out
She wrote "Infidel"
Here is a start
"The 40-year-old, who for the last six years has been unable to turn up at a venue without it being checked by security, is a writer, polemicist and critic of Islam. She is also a Somali immigrant, an ex-Muslim, a survivor of child genital mutilation, an exile many times over,................."
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: 'Why are Muslims so hypersensitive?' | World news | The Guardian
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
What do you want more than that? enough me that a non-Muslim Respect me..

I do not need to love me as long as one is treating me fairly and RESPECT

Muslims in the mosque worship God they not thinking about what you think of intolerance and hate Against them ...


you Must get out from the cave of intolerance and Bias controlled of you

No matter how your impression and concept Which pick it ,stay as you are I do not care at all
Imanway

I understand their are many moderate muslims. There is a very moderate mosque in my area and there is another one in my area that has ties to Saudia Arabia and the extreme views of wahabi Islam.

There is an Islamic school that teaches hate in my area that is funded by the Saudi government.

One that does great works and the other one that produces extremists.

Recently there has been on the news of a american convert to Islam in my area who was trying to go to Somalia to join the extremist network there.

The muslim who shot all those folks at the base recently had worshiped at the mosque in my area.

You need to understand that for non muslims when these things happen it does not speak well of Islam.

America will never lose the picture of the twin towers in our hearts. We were wounded that day. It was done by Muslims who came from Saudia Arabia.

What we see daily seems to be the extreme side to Islam, what we don't see is all those moderates out there.

What we see on this forum is Muslims excusing the extremists. Justifying their behavior.

What we need to see is Muslims taking responsibility and getting their house in order.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Respectfully I think most people consider Shiites to be Muslims. Maybe you've mutually excommunicated/takfir each other, but I think Shiites are recognized as Muslims in many Sunni Muslim nations.

I do agree though that is wrong to claim "taqiyya" is a general or common Muslim practice. I think even among Shiites Taqiyya is mostly limited to times of religious persecution. So under Saddam maybe some Shiites practiced Taqiyya as he at times persecuted Shiites as being potentially pro-Iran.

However the USA allows the free practice of Shiite Islam, or at least does so far as I know, so I don't think there would be legitimate reasons for Taqiyya.

There are terrorist groups, even Sunni ones, that practice Taqiyya for nefarious reasons and I wonder if this may descend from some ideas of the Assassins who evolved into the fairly moderate modern Ismailis. However most Muslims are not members of terrorist organizations.

The OP was clearly confused, or possibly just hyperbolic, but sadly many people just went for it because Islam is an explosive issue right now. Also it's easier to think of Islam as some big monolith, which in a way you're doing too as you seem to not accept Shiites as Muslims.


you can read this : What's the Difference Between Shia and Sunni Muslims?
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:12 AM
 
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251 posts, read 373,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Dutch feminist and author of such works as Submission and The Caged Virgin. Born in 1969 in Somalia, she was raised there and in Kenya, before fleeing to the Netherlands in order to escape an arranged marriage. Although she spent most of her life as a devout Muslim, after the attacks on the World Trade Centers in America on September 11th, she re-examined her beliefs. After reading Atheistisch Manifest by Herman Philipse, she became an outspoken atheist. Until recently, she held a seat in the Dutch Parliament, the Tweede Kamer. [1]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Not surprisingly, the non - right - wing biased Wiki is much better.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mmmmmmm I know her she is Heretic, no more

Which leaves the Jewish and Christian do the same thing
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,801 posts, read 19,900,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
mmmmmmm I know her she is Heretic, no more

Which leaves the Jewish and Christian do the same thing

You found that much out about her so now you will simply disregard anything she wrote about, right?
Without knowing yourself what that is?
If that is not the case, please comment on what she claims in her book and in her movement to change things
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:18 AM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,186,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
mmmmmmm I know her she is Heretic, no more

Which leaves the Jewish and Christian do the same thing
Heretic?

I consider her to be a hero for surviving radical Islam and coming out whole, successful, and happy.

I have great respect for her.
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