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Old 01-03-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Elwill,

Here's a couple examples:

I can go anywhere I like on public land, but if I go onto someones else's private property, I risk being shot. (CD is like private property)

If I was to believe that blacks and mexicans were sub-human, I could not post that here on CD, but I could go to Stormfront and be embraced with open arms. When it comes to private property, the rules are subject to the owner.
thank you for not answering my very simple question
i'm not asking about your rights or the rights of others , i'm asking about mere openion
assume we are talking about two private forums , one of them set the rules of absolute freedom of speech and the other forum set a rules to prohibit bashing or disrespect for beliefs , will you consider the last one have no freedom of speech ?


Quote:
Depicting your Prophet with a bomb in his turban is not hate speech. It is satire used by a group to portray current events in society.
it would be most easier if he wrote " bin laden" instead of " prophet mohammed" under the drawings then ! (in the case if he just wanted to portray current event )
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,839 posts, read 7,899,954 times
Reputation: 12690
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
thank you for not answering my very simple question
i'm not asking about your rights or the rights of others , i'm asking about mere openion
assume we are talking about two private forums , one of them set the rules of absolute freedom of speech and the other forum set a rules to prohibit bashing or disrespect for beliefs , will you consider the last one have no freedom of speech ?

it would be most easier if he wrote " bin laden" instead of " prophet mohammed" under the drawings then ! (in the case if he just wanted to portray current event )
Yes, CD censors to comply with it's rules. There is no absolute freedom of speech here. On the same note, the machine censors out the F-bomb (as well as many other words) as well if you were to type it. I think you do not understand what constitutes hate speech. Here's another two examples for you:

If I was to say that in my opinion, the Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile, that would not be hate speech. It would be a comment based upon common historical knowledge.

If I was to say that all muslims were a bunch of stupid sand n******, I would be comitting hate speech, because it is derogatory talk aimed at a particular race/religion.

I think what you discern as hate speech varies greatly from what those in free societies do.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:24 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Yes, CD censors to comply with it's rules. There is no absolute freedom of speech here. On the same note, the machine censors out the F-bomb (as well as many other words) as well if you were to type it. I think you do not understand what constitutes hate speech. Here's another two examples for you:

If I was to say that in my opinion, the Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile, that would not be hate speech. It would be a comment based upon common historical knowledge.

If I was to say that all muslims were a bunch of stupid sand n******, I would be comitting hate speech, because it is derogatory talk aimed at a particular race/religion.

I think what you discern as hate speech varies greatly from what those in free societies do.
firstly , let us keep our common understanding for what can be considered hate speech or not aside

my question is : can you say that this forum or that country have no freedom of speech just because it set rules which prohibit racism and hate speech ?


secondly , in your openion , these cartoons about our prophet isn't hate speech toward entire muslims in the world ?

Quote:
If I was to say that in my opinion, the Prophet Muhammed was a pedophile, that would not be hate speech. It would be a comment based upon common historical knowledge
and what do you think if you were ignorant and not qualified to talking about both , the scientific defination for this disease " pedophile" and entire historical knowledge which if you really very aware of it , you will recognize that may be all your ancestors were pedophile too
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:40 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,839 posts, read 7,899,954 times
Reputation: 12690
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
firstly , let us keep our common understanding for what can be considered hate speech or not aside

my question is : can you say that this forum or that country have no freedom of speech just because it set rules which prohibit racism and hate speech ?

secondly , in your openion , these cartoons about our prophet isn't hate speech toward entire muslims in the world ?

and what do you think if you were ignorant and not qualified to talking about both , the scientific defination for this disease " pedophile" and entire historical knowledge which if you really very aware of it , you will recognize that may be all your ancestors were pedophile too
Why should we keep our understanding aside? They go straight to the heart of the discussion. You seem to be talking in circles. I don't think you get it. This could be either from a cultural difference, or just ignorance in general.

Secondly, it does not matter if cartoons about the Prophet are hate speech or not. If they are legal by a particular country's standards, it is their right to share their opinion. If Muslims in that country do not like it, they don't have to live there. It is safe to say that if it is OK to portray those depictions of the Prophet in that country, it is a place that does not share your same values. Deal with it in a civil manner like other religions do.

Nobody in my ancestrial line married a six year old or had sex with a nine year old. Why do you deny history that is common knowledge. You can spin it however you want to. Sometimes the truth hurts. It is not your fault. You did not commit these acts.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,770 posts, read 4,442,494 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Situations like this one right here are why the U.S. media/tabloids are afraid to oppose and/or use Islam and their god in a negative light as they do with other religions. This is a direct and fear based encroachment on our country's First Amendment freedoms. Islam may never take over the U.S. as they wish it to, but it's existence in this country has other far reaching effects on our freedoms. And the PM of Denmark couldn't believe that someone would do this. Well sir, when you create a monster, you have to be prepared to handle it.

So, why is it exactly that Islam is the only world religion that gets physically violent when their God/Prophet is used in satire or other forms of publishing/media? After all, I thought the Muslim faith was based on peace and tolerance as SO MANY Muslims on CD swear by.

5 arrested in plot to attack prophet cartoon paper - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101229/ap_on_re_eu/eu_denmark_terror_arrests - broken link)
It's called, people are not going to dist us like they do Christianity and Jesus. They're going to make sure.

They believe in obtaining respect, no matter what. Like it or not, that is what it is.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:39 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Why should we keep our understanding aside? They go straight to the heart of the discussion. You seem to be talking in circles. I don't think you get it. This could be either from a cultural difference, or just ignorance in general.

Secondly, it does not matter if cartoons about the Prophet are hate speech or not. If they are legal by a particular country's standards, it is their right to share their opinion. If Muslims in that country do not like it, they don't have to live there. It is safe to say that if it is OK to portray those depictions of the Prophet in that country, it is a place that does not share your same values. Deal with it in a civil manner like other religions do.

Nobody in my ancestrial line married a six year old or had sex with a nine year old. Why do you deny history that is common knowledge. You can spin it however you want to. Sometimes the truth hurts. It is not your fault. You did not commit these acts.
okey . actually i'm insist to to have an answer for this question

can you say that this forum or that country have no freedom of speech just because it set rules which prohibit racism and hate speech ?
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,819 posts, read 19,910,927 times
Reputation: 23222
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
okey . actually i'm insist to to have an answer for this question

can you say that this forum or that country have no freedom of speech just because it set rules which prohibit racism and hate speech ?
The right of free speech in this country only pertains to public/government owned places.
The owners of CD (a private concern) could decide to prohibit all and any comments about red roses and everyone that posts here would be subject to that rule.
You could still go out on the public street or create a web site of your own and talk about red roses all you want.
The right of free speech does not, however, extend to speech made for the purpose of inciting violence amongst a crowd of people where that would be likely to be successful
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:00 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,730,245 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
when someone set rules in his own forum to prevent and punish or ban specific kinds of speech , then it has nothing to do with freedom of speech in the forum ?


jazzy , i want to realize the concept of " freedom of speech" from westernerer point of view , and i'm asking about the rules of this forum because this forum supposed to be westerner forum which hold westerner culture and collect westerner members
We certainly do not have freedom of speech here. The owners of this site can and do restrict put restrictions on speech. This is there site, and it is their right.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
okey . actually i'm insist to to have an answer for this question

can you say that this forum or that country have no freedom of speech just because it set rules which prohibit racism and hate speech ?
Elwill, I think we Americans have a lot of freedom in our speech, as long as the speech is reasonable.

Is it ok to speak with disrespect about President Obama or ridicule Christians or draw nasty cartoons about Mohammed? Can you write things criticizing our country? Absolutely Yes.

Can you yell FIRE in a crowded theatre? No.

Does this answer your question? If not, please re-phrase your question in a simpler way. Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:23 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Elwill, I think we Americans have a lot of freedom in our speech, as long as the speech is reasonable.

Is it ok to speak with disrespect about President Obama or ridicule Christians or draw nasty cartoons about Mohammed? Can you write things criticizing our country? Absolutely Yes.

Can you yell FIRE in a crowded theatre? No.

Does this answer your question? If not, please re-phrase your question in a simpler way. Thanks.
thank you , that's answers my question

and thank you Boxcar Overkill

i think that we muslims differ than you in that

while we respect freedom of speech we never forgot to show respect and keep dignity and be polite and sensitive for other's emotions

and these is the things which the owners of this forum recognized and tried to establish it , and that's why this forum suceed to keep different people from different belifes to hang around without any hateness
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