U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-11-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But only through religion are true atrocities committed by otherwise decent human beings.
There have been been no truly atheistic societies to compare with, so I do not know how to refute you.

But I would say that wars while often attributed to religion generally have other motivations behind them. Desire for power is often a strong motivator and Religion is a common excuse to gain power.

I doubt if violence is any less in Atheists, humans seem to have a strong predisposition for violence. We can look at the actions of some known Atheist leaders. Kim Jong II, Pol Pat, Joseph Stalin, Napoleon, Mussolini
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-11-2011, 05:11 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My reply was an attempt at humor, I am guilty of having a very bizarre sense of humor.


While many of the adherents of both Islam and Judaism are extremely emotional and violent. I doubt if it is a trait of either belief. but more a cultural heritage of some of the members. Over all I find neither Jews or Muslims to be any more violent than other people. People can be quite brutal, without regard to their religion. The world would be much more violent without religious beliefs.
Your sense of humor escapes me.....

There is nothing funny about the holocaust or that fact that whole families were wiped out which included yours....

The violence of the holocaust was just one more case of antisemitism leading to the genocide of a people that nearly wiped out an entire population. Of which the effects are still felt by the Jewish people today.

The fact is that historically Jews have been on the receiving end of the violence from Christians and Muslims.

And yes people can be brutal and right now in history it is the Muslims...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 07:55 PM
 
40,040 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But only through religion are true atrocities committed by otherwise decent human beings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There have been been no truly atheistic societies to compare with, so I do not know how to refute you.
But I would say that wars while often attributed to religion generally have other motivations behind them. Desire for power is often a strong motivator and Religion is a common excuse to gain power.
I doubt if violence is any less in Atheists, humans seem to have a strong predisposition for violence. We can look at the actions of some known Atheist leaders. Kim Jong II, Pol Pat, Joseph Stalin, Napoleon, Mussolini
I am not talking about societies. I am talking about individuals and religion . . . and I am not talking about evil or corrupt individuals. I am talking about decent human beings. The only way decent human beings can be willingly convinced to participate in or commit atrocities is through religious belief. The evil and corrupt human beings need no such supporting beliefs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 08:03 PM
 
335 posts, read 323,829 times
Reputation: 110
Muslim Message to Israel, United States, and other non-muslim countries:

We are regualrly indoctinating and training teenagers with Jihadist ideology, and genuine Islamic values.

Coming to a town near you.

Hamas Summer Camps Train Next Generation Terrorists - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I am not talking about societies. I am talking about individuals and religion . . . and I am not talking about evil or corrupt individuals. I am talking about decent human beings. The only way decent human beings can be willingly convinced to participate in or commit atrocities is through religious belief. The evil and corrupt human beings need no such supporting beliefs.
I doubt very much it is the only way decent human being can be convinced to participate in or commit atrocities. War seems to have that ability also. So can famine and natural disasters.

National pride may even be a stronger influence than religion in terms of manipulating the emotions, actions and beliefs of people. So are family traditions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 08:19 PM
 
40,040 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I doubt very much it is the only way decent human being can be convinced to participate in or commit atrocities. War seems to have that ability also. So can famine and natural disasters.
I did say "willingly."
Quote:
National pride may even be a stronger influence than religion in terms of manipulating the emotions, actions and beliefs of people. So are family traditions.
These are all motivators that can be used to validate the actions of those who would exercise their evil or corrupt desires . . . but not for decent human beings with no such desires . . . only religion has such power to motivate decent people to commit atrocity in the name of decency.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,875 posts, read 31,750,270 times
Reputation: 12622
Default Another Muslim message

Sayful Islam says the message is clear: The American dream is a farce.

"The message we're going to present is two-fold. The first is the fallacy of the American dream. The American dream has become a nightmare. The message of freedom and democracy has failed the people it's trying to help," Islam remarked.

"The American people are suffering and are seeing oppression. They need to remove the tyrants of our time. The biggest tyrant of our time is Barack Obama, the American president," Islam commented.
Shariah is the solution for all of the problems that mankind is facing today, economically, socially, judicially and politically. Islam is the solution and Shariah is the perfect system that needs to be implemented," Islam claimed.
"Just as Muslims are obliged to call for Shariah in Muslim countries, they are equally obliged to call for Shariah in non-Muslim countries. As the bastion of freedom and democracy and the center of the Western world, it is only appropriate that the call for the Shariah should be there (at the White House," Choudary said.

"We believe that we should be propagating Islam to the British, to the Americans, to the French and other nations because we believe that (Shariah) is superior and that is the way forward for mankind," Choudary also said.

MUSLIM CALL TO OVERTHROW AMERICA: March 3, DC - Grendel Report
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 08:53 PM
 
40,040 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Sayful Islam says the message is clear: The American dream is a farce.

"The message we're going to present is two-fold. The first is the fallacy of the American dream. The American dream has become a nightmare. The message of freedom and democracy has failed the people it's trying to help," Islam remarked.

"The American people are suffering and are seeing oppression. They need to remove the tyrants of our time. The biggest tyrant of our time is Barack Obama, the American president," Islam commented.
Shariah is the solution for all of the problems that mankind is facing today, economically, socially, judicially and politically. Islam is the solution and Shariah is the perfect system that needs to be implemented," Islam claimed.
"Just as Muslims are obliged to call for Shariah in Muslim countries, they are equally obliged to call for Shariah in non-Muslim countries. As the bastion of freedom and democracy and the center of the Western world, it is only appropriate that the call for the Shariah should be there (at the White House," Choudary said.

"We believe that we should be propagating Islam to the British, to the Americans, to the French and other nations because we believe that (Shariah) is superior and that is the way forward for mankind," Choudary also said.

MUSLIM CALL TO OVERTHROW AMERICA: March 3, DC - Grendel Report
I suppose Woodrow will disavow that this is the goal of TRUE Islam . . . or that these are Bidah too. I get so tired of the deceitful arrogance of the members of this anachronistic and barbaric deen that is a cancer on civilized societies everywhere. My prophesy for the ultimate end of fanatic Islamic aspirations is the annihilation of huge population centers and a genocidal retaliation against every living Muslim that can be found.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 06-11-2011 at 10:00 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,330,169 times
Reputation: 15493
I am disturbed by the reports that all LGBT people are severely oppressed, persecuted and executed in Muslim countries.

It appears that gay people - both women and men - are tortured, raped, and killed; and they are desperate to get out. That such atrocities are taking place in this day and age is truly shameful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2011, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I suppose Woodrow will disavow that this is the goal of TRUE Islam . . . or that these are Bidah too. I get so tired of the deceitful arrogance of the members of this anachronistic and barbaric deen that is a cancer on civilized societies everywhere. My prophesy for the ultimate end of fanatic Islamic aspirations is the annihilation of huge population centers and a genocidal retaliation against every living Muslim that can be found.
Nice peaceful sounding message: "My prophesy for the ultimate end of fanatic Islamic aspirations is the annihilation of huge population centers and a genocidal retaliation against every living Muslim that can be found." Isn't that similar to what you believe about us?

You seem to be under the impression that we have some sort of central organization that is in control over the Mosques and Muslims. We have no central authoritative organization. Wish we did have, then I could probably get some financial help for my Mosque.

The only thing any of us have is our Qur'an. Each Mosque is built and funded on it's own and neither gives nor gets any support from any hierarchy. Each Muslim is Islam and each of us is responsible for how we follow Islam.

Yes there are centrally organized groups such as al-Qaeda and Taliban. Even most of us Muslims fear them. If you notice they have been killing way more Muslims than anybody else. I probably have much more reason to fear the Taliban than you have. Outside of giving Muslims a bad name they are an active and real danger to Muslims. Look throughout the mideast and Pakistan and see who the Taliban has been targeting. Mosques and Prominent Muslims.

There are 2 groups using the name Taliban. One is/was an actual Islamic group I do not know if it even still exists. the other is a radical group that is an offshoot of mercenaries hired by the USA to get the Russians out of Afghanistan. They evolved into what is now seen as the Taliban.

al-Qaeda seems to have been an American invention originally designed for the purpose of trapping radicals. I do not think they are organized, but are more like random gangs sharing the name.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top