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Um actually they do seem to appear magically (read: the DOT commissioner broad seems to have full reign over bike lanes, plazas, etc. There is consistently backlash against these things from the community).
If you cater to your community, you want people to continue shopping in your community. It turns out that business is going down after this plaza was put in. So obviously this is having a negative affect on people who work in the community. If it were the other way around...fantastic. But the fact remains that business has gone down and unless you like a block full of shuttered storefronts, this is not good for the community.
I guess you have never been to this pedestrian plaza. I pass by there about once a week -- and guess what, it's filled with people who appear to be IMMIGRANTS from South Asian countries. They are out there enjoying the food and cigarettes they just purchased from businesses in the area.
So guess again about your precious bearded white transplants.
Yeah, and the food wrappers are probably all over the ground and there are also cigaret butts all over too, yeah, really pretty.
Now if the pedestrian plaza's weren't there it would be cleaner.
You do realize that you just completely contradicted yourself with your little examples there right? First you celebrate the creation of expressways as a benefit to society, and then wrap things up by whining about cars. That was honestly almost embarrassing to read. Your parents did a knockout job with the whole idea of thinking before you speak/write.
Bottom line is that these are the people who live and work in the neighborhood. Not the empty suits who want to look good making random areas appear 'green'. Especially when they are implemented without a thorough participation from the block.
Your reaching by trying to dismiss his argument by saying contradicting himself when he didn't. He was saying all those expressways destroyed neighborhoods and ppl's business' but they were necessary for NYC as whole no matter how much we use public transportation it's still the 21st century ppl are gonna use cars so for the ppl that do those expressways are necessary. But at the same time everybody knows there's certain areas of NYC that it's just a horrible idea to drive a car in.
Your reaching by trying to dismiss his argument by saying contradicting himself when he didn't. He was saying all those expressways destroyed neighborhoods and ppl's business' but they were necessary for NYC as whole no matter how much we use public transportation it's still the 21st century ppl are gonna use cars so for the ppl that do those expressways are necessary. But at the same time everybody knows there's certain areas of NYC that it's just a horrible idea to drive a car in.
According to who it's a horrible idea to drive cars in certain areas? The people? The politicians? One politician? Outside contractors? Who's making that decision. Maybe lots of people like to drive in their neighborhoods (they do). My point is, if you're gonna complain about vehicles in one sentence, don't celebrate vehicles in the sentence before that if you wanna be taken seriously. Especially when these plazas are not "necessary for NYC as whole" and they seem to hurt business in certain areas.
Next time take the train. That wonderful pedestrian experience in Jackson Heights is created because people walk and don't need a parking space everytime they'd like to stop somewhere.
Anything that encourages people to drive less while enhancing the streetscape is fine in my book. Look no further than to the rest of the country where the streetscape caters to drivers. Stripmalls, parking lots, and vapid landscaping galore, how lovely.
nope , we arent taking our photography gear on a train to go someplace in queens. i just wont go there and its the areas merchants that get hurt as im not the only one.
we are having the same issues on bell blvd in bayside where the restaurants are limited in how well they can do by the number of parking spots available. many nights we intended to eat on the strip but just bypassed it as we couldnt get a spot. to many other places to go locally where we dont have to deal with lack of parking and its the merchants who are suffering.
its amazing how many places have gone out of business on bell blvd and cited lack of parking as one of the reasons..
If you base your choice of eating on how many parking spots there are then you probably won't be able to eat anywhere in Manhattan anytime unless you pay for parking...so what exactly is the point of your statement? That we should then eliminate trains and add more parking so that you can dine in Manhattan and "improve business"? If losing a small street of parking kills your business in NYC from outsiders not finding one of the 10 parking spots lost, then you never really had a business to begin with and it's just whining and complaining. If you don't dine in an area because there isn't enough parking, then you really don't want to go there as there are plenty of other ways to get there...trains/buses/cabs. You just want the suburban lifestyle in urban NYC...so sorry!
The point is simple..the pedestrian plazas are good for the people who actually LIVE in the community. Unless of course you believe neighborhoods should exist firstly for those outside of them and businesses (some of which are not local), with residents and their quality of life less important?
I will always take the needs of the actual residents who live in the community and who will have a better quality of life with a pedestrian plaza and a more pedestrian friendly community over some businesses crying over some parking spots. Why is it even a discussion?
Businesses are not guaranteed parking spots or street parking. They are welcome to come together and build a parking garage out of their own pocket exclusively for their customers. THE END.
if you notice i said when we go places in queens im not taking a train..
manhattan we can jump on the LIRR in bayside and go right into manhattan.
certain areas are just to over crowded in non manhattan areas and they dont have enough parking to give their merchants enough of a visiting customer base. merchants who move in have to understand the limitations on their business will eventually be limited by parking if they arent going to cater strictly to those in the neighborhood.
from those we see interviewed who failed here in bayside they cited they under estimated the effect of parking restricting their business as they thought more folks would take a bus...
well that's the simple point.."you are not taking a train"....so why exactly should anyone cater to you or people like you in NYC and eliminate a pedestrian plaza because "you are not taking a train." Seems silly just saying it. If you open a business in Queens with already limited parking...not sure why it's a surprise that parking is a problem...sounds like 2 problems here:
1. Merchants didn't do their homework and annoyed they are not attracting people from 100 miles away with open fields of parking.
2. We should not be catering in any way,shape or form to people who "are not taking a train." In that case...go wherever a car will take you conveniently, or pay for parking.
The residents of the community should not be yielding to people who "are not taking a train" or merchants who expect suburban conveniences in highly urbanized market. Build a parking garage for you and your customers.
Show me where the residents (not one council member and the words on print that say "support from the community") overwhelmingly voted to approve this thing. Show me that this is not the administration shoving more of this crap down neighborhood's throats. I will gracefully concede. I'm not too proud to do that.
Last edited by availableusername; 02-01-2012 at 09:30 AM..
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