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In my eyes the liberals (black and white...Cornell West being an example) who "love" blacks who feel that all that they deserve is a life of dysfunction are as bad as the racists who condemn all blacks because of their obsession with this group.
Its about time that the poor who are trying are rewarded and those who are not forgotten about. When this happens more of those who dont try will definitely try as we know that they definitely respond to the incentives when provided.
I believe in a hand up and not a hand out. Life is tough and some people, through no fault of their own, are in a bad place. Incentive should be provided to support these people as they try to HELP THEMSELVES HONESTLY. Self supporting people generally have good self esteem. Dependent adults usually dont.
Like Al Sharpton said (and many will be shocked that he said this)...."If I see you on Friday flat on the ground asking for help, I will help you. If I come back on Monday and you are still in the same place I will walk right passed you". This he said to an audience which was almost exclusively middle class blacks. This is what being BLACK is all about.
Agree with the last sentiment in particular ... think we might have been there.
And I strongly agree with the first paragraph. I would add that I actually think the hypocritical types are worse.
Living in Southern Brooklyn I can tell you that there is severe Medicaid/Food Stamps abuse; the problem is rampant...
is NYC
Yes this for the racists who will tell you that West Indians (because they are black) abuse welfare and "hardworking" Russians do not.
As to the other one who said that the Europeans all came off the boats ready to work hard and be honest. Hmmmmm. Like he doesnt kn ow that "paddy waggons" came about because of all the "paddies" being sent off to jail for petty criminal behavior. You do know that Five Points wa smuch more dangerous than the worst NYCHA building in 2012. As was the Lower East Side 100 years ago.
Agree with the last sentiment in particular ... think we might have been there.
And I strongly agree with the first paragraph. I would add that I actually think the hypocritical types are worse.
SWhat amused me is that Gates had a program about black poverty. Michael Eric Dyson was interviewed, blaming the world. HIS brother, who has a long historfy of crime and drug abuse diusagreed saying that it was indiscipline and wanting fast money that accounted for why he failed.
My barber, who was a crfiminal in his youth, admitted the same thing. I support him because I try to support poor people who try.
Actually I'm more 'tired' of companies today, whether McDonalds or labor forces, or Walmart or a host of other salaried jobs, warehouse ect ect...who make it extremly hard for those looking for work, to merge their way back into employment...
Modern day applications are a hassle, Your applying for a dishwashing job, and it's as if your applying to be a medical advisor at Stewart Hospital...
I think applications and background checks and this check, that check, this reference that reference, have gotten out of hand...and is why many who want to work, can't...cause no one will hire them...
Myself...I earn decent money now as a 'contractor'...with own equiptment...
But when I was applying for regular hourly wage type jobs...it was depressing...
It's not that I didn't want to work...it's that many places are very parculuar about who they hire....
Sure in the add they say 'Oh, we're so fair, and hire all, regardless of gender, color, orientation blah blah blah...'
But it still comes down to 'preference'...if the hireing manager doesn't like your looks, ethnicity, age, color, gender, orientation, mannerism whatever...they will not hire you...
So I wouldn't put all the blame on those not working...cause believe me you..many have tried to get hired, mailed out dozens of resumes, filled out dozens of applications...
And are always told 'Oh, if there's an opening in a few weeks, we'll give you a call'...
What a pile of crap...
How many people are told that?
They respond to add, call, and over the phone receptionist acts like job starts tomorrow...
Then after they show up...suddenly get the cold shoulder, and told 'If there's an opening...we'll call you'....
Which basically means 'Get lost pal, we're not interested'.....
So I'm not going to sit here and put all the blame on those who are unemployed...cause I was there too, and know how it feels to spend time, money, gas, traveling all over the city, county, just to keep getting rejected cause you don't fit some 'template' of an ideal employee for that company...
Which totally varies from company to company...
If more companies would just start hireing on a first come first hired type basis...unemployment would drop by at least 3% almost over night...
While I do agree that employers must protect themselves against potentially bad/criminal employees I certain empathize with your views.
The system ought to be focusing on helping people with this problem, rather than rewarding those who are quite happy to live off taxpayers money and illegal earnings.
This is exactly what I mean by the small carrot and the small stick. Those who try really must struggle at times and get no help while trying their best. Others just have the syatem rolling over for them and people running to pat their head as a reward for their bad behavior.
cities big and small are so ghetto in a lot of aspects.
poverty is rampant and all people do is complain about
it but can't eliminate it. i guess that's why they say only
the strong survive, because you have no other choice.
AGAIN, I've asked this several times in this thread - What do you do with the people who will NEVER become productive citizens in ANY capacity EVER?
There have and will always be a PERMANENT UNDERCLASS of ALL RACES in this country. This surpasses race.
No one seems to have an answer.
I have an answer.
Give them NOTHING, increase the penalties for crime, and relax legislation that discourages law-abiding citizens from defending themselves against criminals. If that means the unproductive people die, so be it. As a country and even as a small community, we would be no worse off for their disappearance from the gene pool... and arguably we'd be better off.
When a person's life is at stake, that person is much more likely to do whatever it takes to survive. So if there were no handouts, the person would have to eat... meaning he grows/raises food himself (now he's productive), he finds a job that will pay him money so he can buy his own food (now he's productive), or he steals food (which can result in his death by gunshot if he steals from a gun owner - which we should all be - at the wrong time).
It has been psychologically proven that when people starve, they become fixated on food and doing whatever it takes to get food. I'd wager that this includes "becoming productive".
I guess I don't truly believe in the notion of there being people who WILL NEVER and CAN NEVER be productive. I agree that there are such people given the system in which we live, which encourages sloth and enables people who aren't productive... but if you take away that safety net, and take away any and all other people / situations that qualify as "enablers" for the lazy person, I'd bet that everyone could and would become productive to an extent that'd keep them alive.
Give them NOTHING, increase the penalties for crime, and relax legislation that discourages law-abiding citizens from defending themselves against criminals. If that means the unproductive people die, so be it. As a country and even as a small community, we would be no worse off for their disappearance from the gene pool... and arguably we'd be better off.
I agree and I say let's take it one step further and do what the Chinese did to their drug addicts in the early part of last century shortly after they kicked out the British.
Let's line up all the "good for nothings" and human "eye sores" and shoot them. The "hoochie mamas" can be sold to the brothels until they're no longer useful, then we kill them too.
They're offspring, depending on their ages can be put in workhouses or like their parents done away with.
We certainly can't have these "defectives" breeding more of themselves now, can we?
The west coast of the country will tell you differently. There are more hispanic women on it than anyone else. Also, the red states are very, very poor. Many of those white chicks are on federal aid and since there aren't too many blacks in the area. They dominate.
I agree with this, but they've tried that already and it does NOT work for EVERYONE.
AGAIN, I've asked this several times in this thread - What do you do with the people who will NEVER become productive citizens in ANY capacity EVER?
There have and will always be a PERMANENT UNDERCLASS of ALL RACES in this country. This surpasses race.
No one seems to have an answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marilyn220
I agree and I say let's take it one step further and do what the Chinese did to their drug addicts in the early part of last century shortly after they kicked out the British.
Let's line up all the "good for nothings" and human "eye sores" and shoot them. The "hoochie mamas" can be sold to the brothels until they're no longer useful, then we kill them too.
They're offspring, depending on their ages can be put in workhouses or like their parents done away with.
We certainly can't have these "defectives" breeding more of themselves now, can we?
By "defective", I mean "poor" person.
These people are defective because they choose this type of poverty. I never said that poor people were the problem... the question was not about poor people. It was about unproductive people.
If anyone is going to be perpetually unproductive by choice, you're absolutely right, those people should not breed, because all they'll do is pass their values on to however many illegitimate children they produce.
I don't suggest that we shoot all of the unproductives, but I would like to see them all shipped off to some remote island somewhere. Then, they'll become productive... or they will die. Maybe there could be the proverbial carrot of "if you become productive, as evidenced by your works while you're here, you will be allowed to return to your homeland".
But I will admit, if people knew they'd pay for things like drug addiction or "willful failure to be productive" with their lives, you would see MUCH less drug addiction and MUCH more productivity. I find it amusing that people suggest that draconian punishments for such offenses are cruel and savage, but nobody has been able to come up with a better solution. Evidently, what we're doing right now is not working.
The country of Iran had something like 400 executions in one recent year, though by some accounts it was more like 1,000. So let's use 1,000. From a country of 75 million, that's but a drop in the ocean. Crimes punishable by death in Iran are: drug trafficking, murder, armed robbery, rape, possession of large amounts of drugs, prostitution, etc. (It also includes a whole bunch of other religious crimes like "apostasy", drinking lots of alcohol, etc, which aren't crimes in America.)
So, 1,000 people were convicted of those crimes and given the proscribed punishment for them.
Multiply that by four because America has over 300 million people and you get that if the proportion of those criminals were the same for America, we'd have 4,000 convictions per year for the sum total of all such crimes.
Now you and I and everyone else all know that America convicts WAY more than that number of people every year for all of the above-mentioned crimes, and there are many more people who commit the crimes and get away with them.
It stands to reason that Iran's draconian punishment for these crimes serves as a really good deterrent, and America's punishment for these crimes is not sufficient to deter people from committing them en masse.
We could do better, to reform people who aren't productive when they are physically capable of being productive... or eliminate them from society so they don't mooch off of those of us who are productive.
And if you disagree, I would love to hear your suggestion. Thus far, nothing else has worked. What do YOU think would work, if not severe and certain dissuasion of "unproductiveness"?
These people are defective because they choose this type of poverty.
I disagree. Poverty has been a part of life in the world since the beginning of society.
Quote:
And if you disagree, I would love to hear your suggestion. Thus far, nothing else has worked. What do YOU think would work, if not severe and certain dissuasion of "unproductiveness"?
The only SURE way is constant and consistent ANNIHILATION.
Every time somebody "fails" to pull themselves up from the gutter or not make it within a certain amount of time (3 months), then DEATH.
This goes for EVERYONE who falls into despair, even the ones through no fault of their own.
If they don't become voluntary slaves to the system, then they need to be annihilated. End of story.
The absolute and FINAL SOLUTION to "undesirables".
Does any of this sound familiar?
Or we can ship them off someplace where we can use them for forced experiments against their will, because let's face it? They're not really "human beings" anyway, so what does it matter?
We can harvest their organs (the ones who aren't drug users) like the Chinese do with their criminals and sell them to the "productive" citizens like yourself.
Last edited by marilyn220; 09-26-2012 at 02:16 PM..
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