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my question is, who the hell is gonna live in these things? the people who can afford that still have options in more yuppie friendly places
Where? I'd like to know because as far as I can see, there are no yuppie havens sub $2,500. Especially not in Brooklyn, Queens or Manhattan. The only places left are the Bronx and Staten Island. (Or you can move out to a train + bus zone in the boonies of Queens, or the boonies of Brooklyn. (Midwood, or Mill Basin.) These are not exactly yuppie havens though.
I think Trader Joe's targets more of a middle-class/professional demographic. Isn't Parkchester more working class/immigrant-oriented? Might not be enough demand there. I think the store's appeal is that it sells natural/organic foods at reasonable prices. It's not really cheap. Perhaps cheaper than other traditional supermarkets, but smaller grocers and ethnic markets fill in the gaps in many working class/immigrant neighborhoods.
It might make more sense in another part of the Bronx (perhaps further north or east?) where the surrounding neighborhoods are more middle-class. Also where there is good parking. There is one Trader Joe's in Queens that seems to be very busy. It's located far away from the subways and geared toward drivers.
And I don't know about Whole Foods in Riverdale. For it to make business sense, it probably needs more than just locals to shop there. What are the surrounding neighborhoods like? Are there enough people from outside Riverdale willing to drive there? Queens doesn't even have a Whole Foods and incomes there are higher overall compared to the Bronx. I think some probably drive out to Long Island. Though many supermarkets also have stepped up their game and broadened their organic selections. There really isn't this huge demand for Whole Foods anymore which is why the chain has been struggling to drive growth in recent years.
Do you know that the Parkchester community has had a Community Supported Agricultural club since 2012? It's operated out of St. Paul 's Evangelical Lutheran Church. In case you aren't aware, it's basically an annual contract to pay a farmer from upstate NY in exchange for a weekly exchange of fresh, organic produce during the growing season. So if there is a population that joins this kind of thing, what makes you think a TJ's, in particular would be unwelcome?
With all due respect, I am buying an apartment in Parkchester. In order to pay both the mortgage and maintenance, I have to make above the median income, which I do. I'm not considered low-income by any stretch of the imagination. My needs are slightly higher in that I am divorced so I need two bedrooms, one for me, one for my kid. Poor people would not be able to finance my purchase.
So whatever was, is no longer. I also see that the prices for apartments similar to mine have gone up by 40% in the past three years. If only I had the foresight to by sooner. I suspect some of you older Bronx residents paid significantly less for your dwelling in a more Tony area than I am paying now.
My point is I think you misread the demographic. My building is filled with teachers, contractors and many solid union people. Well not the cream of the elite, they certainly have money to spend. And that will continue as housing costs continue to soar. To sum up, if you were poor or even low income, you could not afford Parkchester.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba
I did quote the wrong person. I was on my phone and didn't realize I was quoting anyone. The screen is small. I was responding to the insistence that the demographic is too __________ to want or appreciate a Trader Joe's.
Perhaps you meant to quote me? Though I never said poor or low income. I asked if Parkchester was working class/immigrant oriented (I wasn't sure since I have only been in the area a couple of times) because if so, then I thought Trader Joe's may not make business sense there.
Demographics do matter and different groups have different buying preferences. Trader Joe's isn't your typical supermarket. It has some staples but emphasizes natural/organic and ready-to-eat foods under its own brand. It targets a certain crowd. I'm not really talking about money. For example, many immigrants, whether or not they have a lot of disposable income, like to shop in ethnic markets. Would a Trader Joe's hold appeal? Working class folks (and by that I mean blue collar vs white collar, not money specifically though of course there is some correlation) also might not care as much about all the gourmet-ish snacks and frozen prepared foods that the store sells. Trader Joe's is like upscale or hippie food at more reasonable prices. Obviously any person can appreciate the food but certain demographics as a whole are more likely to shop there for different reasons.
And the other part of my post was thinking about accessibility to other neighborhoods. If you look at the existing Trader Joe's in NYC, almost all are located in dense higher-income neighborhoods and also have good subway access. For a location in the Bronx to match that type of customer volume, it might need to be in a more driver-friendly area similar to the sole location in Queens. Many higher-income people in the outer boroughs have cars.
Do you know that the Parkchester community has had a Community Supported Agricultural club since 2012? It's operated out of St. Paul 's Evangelical Lutheran Church. In case you aren't aware, it's basically an annual contract to pay a farmer from upstate NY in exchange for a weekly exchange of fresh, organic produce during the growing season. So if there is a population that joins this kind of thing, what makes you think a TJ's, in particular would be unwelcome?
Hey, I'm just talking from a business perspective and whether a store would see sufficient business to warrant opening a location there as opposed to other parts of the city. Interest in organic food or Trader Joe's products is not exactly unique. Is there sufficient demand locally is the question. Personally I travel to other neighborhoods all the time when I want certain groceries/foods. Doesn't mean that it makes sense for those stores to open locations near me. The neighborhood as a whole can't support it.
Perhaps you meant to quote me? Though I never said poor or low income. I asked if Parkchester was working class/immigrant oriented (I wasn't sure since I have only been in the area a couple of times) because if so, then I thought Trader Joe's may not make business sense there.
Demographics do matter and different groups have different buying preferences. Trader Joe's isn't your typical supermarket. It has some staples but emphasizes natural/organic and ready-to-eat foods under its own brand. It targets a certain crowd. I'm not really talking about money. For example, many immigrants, whether or not they have a lot of disposable income, like to shop in ethnic markets. Would a Trader Joe's hold appeal? Working class folks (and by that I mean blue collar vs white collar, not money specifically though of course there is some correlation) also might not care as much about all the gourmet-ish snacks and frozen prepared foods that the store sells. Trader Joe's is like upscale or hippie food at more reasonable prices. Obviously any person can appreciate the food but certain demographics as a whole are more likely to shop there for different reasons.
And the other part of my post was thinking about accessibility to other neighborhoods. If you look at the existing Trader Joe's in NYC, almost all are located in dense higher-income neighborhoods and also have good subway access. For a location in the Bronx to match that type of customer volume, it might need to be in a more driver-friendly area similar to the sole location in Queens. Many higher-income people in the outer boroughs have cars.
Well, I'm an immigrant, and I get about 95% of my food at Trader Joe's. In a hallway of a building in the Parkchester North, about 7 years ago, I saw a young man waiting for the elevator who, if he wasn't an immigrant, must have been a child of immigrants, from South Asia. He was lugging a standard biochemistry textbook, used worldwide in premed college programs and medical schools. How much do you know about immigrants, and are you aware that a legal immigrant not immigrating through family ties essentially must have advanced professional training? Immigrants typically don't have any wealth, but do have culturally plenty more than the welfare class, in fact cannot be even remotely compared to the welfare class in terms of values and behavior. And many young people with college degrees in humanities, who work at McDonald's, are the modern working class. So actually, immigrants and working class WOULD definitely shop at Trader Joe's (and they do, I see them every day when I shop there).
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I was responding to the insistence that the demographic is too __________ to want or appreciate a Trader Joe's.
