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Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 25 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,220 posts, read 17,102,322 times
Reputation: 15539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
I did not say all retirees should or would move to the city.
But I did say it's a ridiculous assertion to say they should all move to the South and automatically declare upon doing so that there wouldn't be any problems there. Especially if they are moving because they couldn't afford where they are.
I also said that depending on where you are upstate (collegetowns) there are plenty of facilities. You hate that I mention that because you hate NY. But that doesn't change the fact that those facilities exist in certain parts of upstate NY and of course in NYC.
If they cannot take a cab or a bus on earth are they going to do well in the South? I'm speaking of people who can't drive. That cuts off most of the South as well and if they are that immobile a nursing home is the best option for them (wherever).
No you continue to extoll the benefits available to a city dweller even though no poster has mentioned they are in NYC. "Err, no. If you live in NYC the hospital amenities are excellent and if the person is still capable of walking public transportation is excellent. There are a lot of social services and facilities dedicated towards elderly, disabled, and low income people in NYC."
I have never said I hate NY nor have I criticized those that choose to live there you however vehemently
despise the south and any that choose to live there.
If a person can not take a cab or bus what are they going to do in NY when there is 3 feet of snow on the ground? Southern communities that people may select to live in have buses/transportation these features are not exclusive to NY. If a persons needs change regardless where they live they will have to adjust to meet them.
Luckily your folks will be living with you so they are set...
No you continue to extoll the benefits available to a city dweller even though no poster has mentioned they are in NYC. "Err, no. If you live in NYC the hospital amenities are excellent and if the person is still capable of walking public transportation is excellent. There are a lot of social services and facilities dedicated towards elderly, disabled, and low income people in NYC."
I have never said I hate NY nor have I criticized those that choose to live there you however vehemently
despise the south and any that choose to live there.
If a person can not take a cab or bus what are they going to do in NY when there is 3 feet of snow on the ground? Southern communities that people may select to live in have buses/transportation these features are not exclusive to NY. If a persons needs change regardless where they live they will have to adjust to meet them.
Luckily your folks will be living with you so they are set...
This is the New York forum and NYC and collegetowns upstate are everybit a part of NY as the sticks. I am perfectly within the topic of this forum to talk about urban parts of NYS.
This is the New York forum and NYC and collegetowns upstate are everybit a part of NY as the sticks. I am perfectly within the topic of this forum to talk about urban parts of NYS.
Not all New Yorkers who live in the New York metro area live in NYC itself, and within that metro, there seem to be fewer services available to seniors than elsewhere, probably because the population of the metro tends to be younger and more affluent than elsewhere. That would probably be the case with the Hudson Valley communities within an hour of the city.
Not all upstate college towns have bus systems, and frequently the bus service that exists, only serves the college, ie, shuttle service. Ithaca is probably an exception. Cities that you might consider "college towns" are actually cities in their own rights like Syracuse and Binghamton. Other college towns are much smaller: Alfred, Oneonta, Fredonia, Genesseo, Canton, Hamilton, etc.
In general, there are good services for seniors in and around the big Upstate cities: Buffalo, Rochester, Albany, Syracuse. Whether living in those cities is feasible or desirable for elderly people depends upon their income. I know that some parts of the Buffalo metro, like Tonawanda, are well served by public transport and are "senior friendly" but I, personally, wouldn't live there because it's simply too big and too crowded.
How easy a smaller city or large town can be for the elderly to live independently is uneven. Some areas have better services than others. Certainly areas with less traffic means that older drivers can probably continue to drive safely for a few years longer than if they lived in an area where they had to take highways everywhere. Of course, living in a walkable community would be even better for the elderly, but usually safe, affordable housing and the various services that seniors frequent don't match up well.
My guess is that no matter what state you look at, the above scenarios may hold more or less true. Only the place names change. If you're a relatively wealthy and healthy senior you have a lot more choices, but these diminish as your resources and/or health diminish.
Not all New Yorkers who live in the New York metro area live in NYC itself, and within that metro, there seem to be fewer services available to seniors than elsewhere, probably because the population of the metro tends to be younger and more affluent than elsewhere. That would probably be the case with the Hudson Valley communities within an hour of the city.
Not all upstate college towns have bus systems, and frequently the bus service that exists, only serves the college, ie, shuttle service. Ithaca is probably an exception. Cities that you might consider "college towns" are actually cities in their own rights like Syracuse and Binghamton. Other college towns are much smaller: Alfred, Oneonta, Fredonia, Genesseo, Canton, Hamilton, etc.
In general, there are good services for seniors in and around the big Upstate cities: Buffalo, Rochester, Albany, Syracuse. Whether living in those cities is feasible or desirable for elderly people depends upon their income. I know that some parts of the Buffalo metro, like Tonawanda, are well served by public transport and are "senior friendly" but I, personally, wouldn't live there because it's simply too big and too crowded.
How easy a smaller city or large town can be for the elderly to live independently is uneven. Some areas have better services than others. Certainly areas with less traffic means that older drivers can probably continue to drive safely for a few years longer than if they lived in an area where they had to take highways everywhere. Of course, living in a walkable community would be even better for the elderly, but usually safe, affordable housing and the various services that seniors frequent don't match up well.
My guess is that no matter what state you look at, the above scenarios may hold more or less true. Only the place names change. If you're a relatively wealthy and healthy senior you have a lot more choices, but these diminish as your resources and/or health diminish.
Out of the smaller college towns, Cortland, Oswego, Oneonta, Plattsburgh, Brockport, Clinton, Geneseo, Canton, Potsdam, Alfred and Fredonia have some form of public transportation at varying degrees. Hamilton doesn't, but has its own hospital. Smaller cities like Auburn, Binghamton, Utica, Rome, Watertown, Corning, Elmira, Glens Falls, Hornell, as well as select small town areas have a system as well, but it will likely vary in terms of service. I'm only mentioning this to state what is available and people would have to decide what works best for them in this regard. Here is a list, just to show other systems that may not have been mentioned: New York Transit Links
I also agree that rural and select areas are going to be worse in terms of services for seniors in pretty much any state. That is why research about areas that fit individual needs are important.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-05-2015 at 07:03 AM..
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 25 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,220 posts, read 17,102,322 times
Reputation: 15539
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
This is the New York forum and NYC and collegetowns upstate are everybit a part of NY as the sticks. I am perfectly within the topic of this forum to talk about urban parts of NYS.
It's not the mention of NY communities that's an issue, you continue to bash anyone who considers living elsewhere even when it's best for their situation. Posters have given examples where your mindset of "there's bus service and taxis" does not work especially when dealing with a senior. NYC is never mentioned in any publication as a recommended spot to retire. If your a Trump or Bloomberg who cares where you retire, heck Bloomberg can buy his own city upstate and do what he wants with it.
An average worker may have to completely redefine how they live as they continue to age and if mobility becomes an issue getting on a bus probably won't work especially in the winter.
I've also said 1000 times that COL calculators do not factor taxes, especially property taxes, in. They usually take an overall US average, which doesn't apply to the Northeast very well. That's if they factor in property tax at all.
Here in NJ, you can easily pay $1000 a month in property tax. That's just serious money to me. But, to be fair, I am finding that jobs here pay easily $12k more a year. So, all factors must be considered.
Take this a step further: those same business paying $1000 more a month for property taxes are also paying $12k more a year to pay their employee(s) (per employee). Double whammy for businesses. Now, factor in a commute that can often take an hour or longer and cost easily $40 round trip due to tolls. $40/day * 20 days a month *12 months = another $9600 a year.
Now, NJ isn't looking as good. A job in NJ that pays $80k is now equal to a job in NC that pays around $65k, give or take.
The final factor, weather and less stress aside, is the cost of housing. Typically, I see $400k homes here in NJ, in the better towns, that could be found in better towns in NC for $250k. So, the $3000 a month mortgage drops to $2000 a month in NC for the same house, taxes aside. Starts to make a lot more sense. $1000 x 12 = $12,000 a year.
So now the the $80k job in NJ is equal to about $52k in NC, keeping the same lifestyle.
The last bastion of low tax that NJ has is the gas tax. Even cheaper than NC. The talk on every channel is about the govt raising the tax here by $0.30 a gallon, to near NYS levels. As I've told everyone I know, say goodbye to NJ if this happens. NYS is already toast, NJ is next. The Northeast is hurting pretty bad, as you can see with a simple calculation of real expenses.
It's not the mention of NY communities that's an issue, you continue to bash anyone who considers living elsewhere even when it's best for their situation. Posters have given examples where your mindset of "there's bus service and taxis" does not work especially when dealing with a senior. NYC is never mentioned in any publication as a recommended spot to retire. If your a Trump or Bloomberg who cares where you retire, heck Bloomberg can buy his own city upstate and do what he wants with it.
An average worker may have to completely redefine how they live as they continue to age and if mobility becomes an issue getting on a bus probably won't work especially in the winter.
I do not bash anyone for where they chose to live.
If you want to move to Florida, go ahead and be my guest.
I posted because the general thrust of this was that life was magically easy in certain "low cost" havens, and that is not the case. All places have pros and cons and different people are looking for differenr things.
And yes, I do know seniors who use bus service and taxis to get to their medical appointments. Perhaps you or those you don't, and that fine. But just because you wouldn't personally deal with those things doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people who do.
Re: the taxes, interestingly North Carolina has removed tax credits from private pensions and certain other forums of retirement income. I've heard it's because their state medicaid fund is nearly broke. All those retirees dumped on them from New York have depleted their medicaid fund, meaning state and local taxes have to increase to cover social services and medicaid (yes elderly poor have medicaid that supplements their medicare).
So North Carolina is already having negative consequences of having New York and other Northern poor DUMPED on them.
If large numbers of working class boomers move to NC and Florida (this is happening) those states are screwed budgetwise (think big tax increases).
And no doubt, a lot of elderly poor will be leaving NYC itself (perhaps even more so than upstate) It's very convenient, but unless one moves into public housing or has other welfare help one cannot live off social security in NYC alone. As developers buyout and push out low income elderly from rent stabilized buildings (renters) yes many do indeed go to North Carolina or Florida. For the poor the only other alternative is to stay with family and friends. The elderly that are well off (property owners) do stay in the city.
To tell you the truth, if they are not property owners, the collegetowns upstate are comparatively expensive. So I'm sure poor renters with only social security, unless they get either Section 8 or stay with relatives are tempted by the North Carolina or Florida thing as well.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 25 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,220 posts, read 17,102,322 times
Reputation: 15539
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
And yes, I do know seniors who use bus service and taxis to get to their medical appointments. Perhaps you or those you don't, and that fine. But just because you wouldn't personally deal with those things doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people who do.
If large numbers of working class boomers move to NC and Florida (this is happening) those states are screwed budgetwise (think big tax increases).
And no doubt, a lot of elderly poor will be leaving NYC itself (perhaps even more so than upstate) It's very convenient, but unless one moves into public housing or has other welfare help one cannot live off social security in NYC alone. As developers buyout and push out low income elderly from rent stabilized buildings (renters) yes many do indeed go to North Carolina or Florida. For the poor the only other alternative is to stay with family and friends. The elderly that are well off (property owners) do stay in the city.
To tell you the truth, if they are not property owners, the collegetowns upstate are comparatively expensive. So I'm sure poor renters with only social security, unless they get either Section 8 or stay with relatives are tempted by the North Carolina or Florida thing as well.
This is probably the most valid statements you've made. Yes I know seniors use buses, the issue is not always taking a bus from point a to point b the problem is when you don't live near point a or your appointment is too far from point b. Taxis add up and too many have limits on their resources.
Florida has been the borscht belt south for decades with NY's retirees along with a good part of most northern states retiring in her cities/towns. she probably has the most extensive infrastructure for retirees that want it.
Retiring is almost 3 stages, the first is when you retire and have full functionality and may just downsize your home, move to a 55+ community, travel or work part time. The next stage is where your functionality starts to become limited, driving may become a problem and perhaps one in the relationship starts to have health issues at this stage independent living may give way to some "community" form of living. Stage 3 is the challenge, health issues may be prevalent and if resources are limited you are at the mercy of the social services network where you live. For any of these stages having family nearby is great but very frequently family is not around. Parents are unwilling to move and kids have relocated to where there careers have taken them and often don't take the reins until stage 3 when the parents have to have help.
Re: the taxes, interestingly North Carolina has removed tax credits from private pensions and certain other forums of retirement income. I've heard it's because their state medicaid fund is nearly broke. All those retirees dumped on them from New York have depleted their medicaid fund, meaning state and local taxes have to increase to cover social services and medicaid (yes elderly poor have medicaid that supplements their medicare).
So North Carolina is already having negative consequences of having New York and other Northern poor DUMPED on them.
It's also worth noting that NC was hit especially hard by the recession and the loss of low-skill jobs in the traditional sectors of textiles and furniture. Charlotte and Raleigh get a lot of attention from North easterners, but I'm not sure a lot of people realize that a large portion of NC is pretty poor.
NC is getting strained, partially (IMO) because the state and counties simply weren't collecting enough revenue. Growth was not made to pay for itself, (IMO) because of the fear the developers and builders would take their plans somewhere else -- without impact fees -- for example.
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