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This all basically stems from one word--HOME. And it is people trying to get a piece of, or trying to find something lost along the way. Something in NY is lost. OR else there wouldn't be the mass exodus and everyone on these boards crying or complaining and WANTING to come back home. People need to realize this and try to change the way things are currently working with this state. Not just sit back and talk about how great NY is because they haven't run into any problems with it. It isn't great, IT COULD BE, but it isn't on the up and up BY A LONGSHOT.[/quote]
I have to put an 'Amen' to that one, laughter. I am wondering if there is anything people can do more productive than complain on some message board. I doubt trusting ANY politician so that arena is scratched.
Broad generalization but 3 types of NY'ers in regards to fleeing the state.
1) Those that are "stuck" here. Family obligation, spouse's great paying job, etc.
2) Those that will never EVER leave. Rarely leave their hometowns, or are living within 30 mi radius of where they went to high school. Likely cannot spot Delaware or Idaho on a map. Have known the same people for the past 25+ years, who themselves are from the same area as well.
3) Those that will leave. The explorers. Can see that NYS is in the can and will go elsewhere. Has an element of risk involved. Can see the forest, as well as the trees. Will try to take control of their lives and manage as best they can.
Again, broad generalization, but this applies to really anyone really. in politics, in art, music, etc. People who sit back and are content, people that "blaze" new trails and forge out a new path, etc.
Well I happen to agree with your generalization. My wife and I are 3s. After I complete my master's degree in education, we are going south and hope to purchase our first home in South Carolina. My parents were 3s and have been living in Florida for nine years now. My in-laws are a combination of 2 and 4 who will stay in New York despite the fact that they are now using their investment savings to pay their taxes. Their money won't last forever and even the advice of their attorney and accountant to sell will not alter their thinking. Talk about foolish.
Well I happen to agree with your generalization. My wife and I are 3s. After I complete my master's degree in education, we are going south and hope to purchase our first home in South Carolina. My parents were 3s and have been living in Florida for nine years now. My in-laws are a combination of 2 and 4 who will stay in New York despite the fact that they are now using their investment savings to pay their taxes. Their money won't last forever and even the advice of their attorney and accountant to sell will not alter their thinking. Talk about foolish.
I am definately a 3's..but right now from a financial standpoint we are 1's. Dh has a GREAT gig..that he just will not find anywhere else and even paycut to move south will not be worth it. BUT all of his relatives are 2's They will live in queens the bronx, in the gang infested areas...but they will NEVER leave NY...I find it rather sad and depressing..because I honestly dont see anything terrific or appealing about the boroughs (From a family standpoint). I am an explorer and have lived in the west coast, pacific northwest and here in NY..the only place I have yet to experience living is the south...and I am open to that.
It is really only when one moves away that one discovers the level of opportunity that is available elsewhere. I know SEVERAL people who have moved away, then returned home due to family, and now are back on the way out again...because NY continually remains very unfriendly towards any working family. Now, if you don't choose to work, on the other hand, NY can be very accomadating to you.......believe me, I know this for a fact.
It is really only when one moves away that one discovers the level of opportunity that is available elsewhere. I know SEVERAL people who have moved away, then returned home due to family, and now are back on the way out again...because NY continually remains very unfriendly towards any working family. Now, if you don't choose to work, on the other hand, NY can be very accomadating to you.......believe me, I know this for a fact.
What opportunity though? I think its funny, I live in my parents house in the south towns, in the type of idyllic neighborhood that everyone talks about wanting to live in ...safe, tree lined streets, walking distance to stores, playgrounds, the elementary , junior, and senior high schools for the kids , the shops and restaurants on our little main street (I've walked to school and everywhere else my entire life growing up.) As soon as the weather gets nice every single block you see kids out playing, people walking dogs or pushing strollers, ice cream trucks coming by... AND You don't need to make $200k a year to live here (where in other cities, you would!) ... 2000 sq ft houses here are like $80-$120k... a household pulling down $40k a year could probably do it. (Im at a point in my life where Im splitting for the City of Buffalo, being single and doing my own thing, I also now see the charm in where I grew up)
Its like if people want to make more, (and then just pay more) to live in a suburb of some other major city and battle congestion everyday, go for it !
I just don't really see the benefit unless people are leaving for other solid reasons... like they really want to work a specific field and cant do that here... or they really really can't stand snow. Or they genuinely want to see and live in other places. When people leave for 'lifestyle' like they have some fantasy of how much better some other place is going to be, its hilarious. I think cause people get attracted to abstract ideals... like they have to own a brand new 3000 sq ft mcmansion on some cul de sac or their life is a failure.. or they look at the amount on their paycheck and evaluate thier entire lifes progress based solely around that. (edit: to clarify.. if you could have your ideal lifestyle here on a certain dollar amount vs having that same lifestyle on a much higher dollar amount somewhere else... six of one, half dozen of the other..why the big stink over it?)
No Thanks ! Im not saying I won't ever leave Buffalo, however, I've seen the other side of the fence, the places my fellow WNYers move to, and it was pretty bland and unimpressive. I give a pass to the people who left for NYC, or Boston, or Portland, or Los Angeles/San Diego... the friends who left for the suburbs and sprawl of Charlotte, Im happy that they are happy, but Im not getting it.
Last edited by aka_mouse; 07-24-2007 at 08:25 PM..
To me "opportunity" is not for the lifestyle by any means but a way to pay the bills, especially when most young people coming out of college are burdened with debt.....simply landing a job in Buffalo for around 40k is extremely quite difficult due to this lack of "opportunity". Without the jobs, people are going to leave. And I stress that the jobs have to be decent.
To me "opportunity" is not for the lifestyle by any means but a way to pay the bills, especially when most young people coming out of college are burdened with debt.....simply landing a job in Buffalo for around 40k is extremely quite difficult due to this lack of "opportunity". Without the jobs, people are going to leave. And I stress that the jobs have to be decent.
I totally agree with you on the job situation upstate, However, I just want to point the main thing Im getting at with all this -- people who get great jobs don't leave for those high paying jobs and live on the cheap till its all paid off -- They take on even more debt buying homes and new cars once they get there (even if they are reasonably priced or cheap.) Or start families or whatever other expenses. Im saying it ends up being the same thing. This entire nation is almost completely driven on debt.
I know exactly one single person who's really moved up in a measurable way since they left the area.. and thats only cause they got married, he graduated from Canisius and got a great $70k+ job in Charlotte and purchased a Buffalo priced $125k home in a close suburb in a new development. With his high paying job and his wifes income (which isnt even needed) they are living well, but they are not materialistic people anyway so in the big picture it doesnt even matter. Not that there is that many amenities to enjoy in the area in the first place (strip malls with the same stores youd find on Union Rd in West Seneca where they are from) but it doesn't even matter to them. (weather was a non factor, they just went with the flow)
Every single other person I know that left, made lateral moves at best. And this varies from a friends brother getting a great engineering job and living in the expensive NoVa suburbs of DC (now dealing with the congested commutes) up to and including guys who left gritty artsy Buffalo neighborhoods and the whole 'party scene' to live in the exact same style places on the West Coast in larger cities. Ranging from San Diego and Los Angeles all the way to Portland and Seattle.
I even know a guy and his wife who has bounced from the Charlotte area and back to Buffalo probably a dozen times now. Cause he's not a white collar professional (Charlotte's a banking town.. with a GED/HS diploma/Weak college degree, youre not going any farther than you were in Buffalo) and his wife is a teacher, and shocker! the inner-city schools in Charlotte shes works at are just as '****ty' as they are up here. It cause most people who move from WNY put their kids in private schools anyway cause now they have the $$$ to do so, while in WNY the suburban public school are great. And in the Carolina there is political opposition to publicly funded institutions, it is a 'Red State' after all. So up here you pay taxes and if youre in the burbs youre kids get an education, you go down south , you get less taxes, but youre paying to put your kids through school cause the public system blows. And even now taxes are going up in the southern cities cause they are realizing you cant run a major city without public funding (DUH) Up North we actually know how to build cities, we just lost our tax base.
Opportunity to me means initial start. Just about every person I know was faced with the reality of stay in upstate NY and work in jobs that you really didn't need a college degree for, or leave and move to a place where your degree is valued. Again, just having moved down South and then back to Buffalo for a visit, it is almost shocking to see the number of young people who are in much better positions of authority in areas like banks, hospitals, construction, etc. In Buffalo and upstate NY, it is rare, and you'd have to wait, to "put your time in". However, how much time do we have to put in this area before people just starting out are deemed worthy or responsible. I can't explain it, you have to witness it for yourself.
But yeah, I am sure people in this area of NY are living the good life that matters. Maybe that is what people are trying to hold onto.
And yet people keep moving away.... huh! How bout that! The fools! Don't they know any better? Taking the bait hook, line & sinker... you'd think they might at least think for themselves instead of acting like lemmings.
My God! Don't they realize they are only going to increase their debt, raise their children in junky school systems, be exposed to living in a red state, have neighbors that attend Christian churches, increase their carbon footprint!
[quote=nickster65;1134874]It is really only when one moves away that one discovers the level of opportunity that is available elsewhere.
Isn't this the reason why young people are leaving, they are going AWAY to college. It is the start of independence. Why would they want to move back? Jobs and employment contacts have already been established at their new location. I bet this fact holds true no matter what state you are talking about.
Would love to see if those staying in local collages leave their home state at the same rate as those going away to school. I would guess that they don't.
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