African American thinks there are not enough of his people in Western Fairfax (Centreville: low crime, employment)

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't you give the benefit of doubt unless there is evidence to the contrary that you would be discriminated? Instead of assuming discrimination first and then only associating with those or neighborhoods that "prove themselves" to you?

No. Maybe that's how you think, but you can't project the way you perceive things on other people. For me, I look at what the worse possible scenario could be because once I have made the decision to move there I have to stay there at least a year (if I rent) or longer (if I buy). The reason why I stopped responding to you because no matter how many people you talk to, no matter how many studies you find, you will never wear the shoes of a black person in this region. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it wrong. You have a reason for thinking the way you do and I respect that, but don't tell me I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, if you haven't lived a day in the life of someone with my shoes.

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

By the way, an interesting social trend to note is that whites tend to have higher amount of anti-black prejudice with greater contact with blacks. In other words, whites living in western Fairfax with 5% black population is less likely to harbor prejudice against blacks than those whites living right next to majority black neighborhoods in DC. There is a reason that President (then candidate) Obama caught his big primary/caucaus break in, of all places, Iowa, the whitest state in the Union.

Oh yeah, they voted for Obama, that means it's safe for all the black people to move in, right? And somehow Iowa represents the mindset and views of the people of western Fairfax. Look I have said already, I think western Fairfax is a great place and I wouldn't blame any person of any race to want to move there, but you are making it seem as though there is something wrong with me because I don't want to move there. All I'm saying is I don't feel comfortable living in a place that is that homogenous. It's one of the reasons why I left MD. If I had an issue with race, then why would I move from a place that is 80% black to a place that is 74% white. You are making an issue of something that isn't an issue. You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. There are certain things that you won't understand about this topic, which I'm sure there are certain things related to you that I won't understand.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

The reason why I stopped responding to you because no matter how many people you talk to, no matter how many studies you find, you will never wear the shoes of a black person in this region. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it wrong. You have a reason for thinking the way you do and I respect that, but don't tell me I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, if you haven't lived a day in the life of someone with my shoes.

I find this an exceptionally sad way to see the world. If we could only understand people with the same skin color as we do and no one else, we wouldn't be able to coexist in the same country.

There are such things as personal feelings and perceptions and object reality. Just because you feel that your neighbors might be racist does not mean that they actually are. Sometimes our feelings and perceptions betray us.

As someone who immigrated and lived on three different continents and many countries and regions, I completely understand what it's like to be the only person of a different ethnic, religious and cultural background in the room.

Oh yeah, they voted for Obama, that means it's safe for all the black people to move in, right? And somehow Iowa represents the mindset and views of the people of western Fairfax.

For those who seem to think that close contact always breeds "friendliness," I am simply restating an observed social phenomenon that lack of familiarity in some cases creates more friendliness than close contact. That's all. It's a caution to those who immediately assume that low population black areas (e.g. western Fairfax) must be automatically anti-black. It ain't so.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

First, I would ask you not to personalize the discussion. And, no, as I wrote before, I have no problem with people associating with or living next to or dating whomever they please. It's a free country.

You didn't really answer my question. I mean, that's what J-Date is for. There's a lot of pressure in the community to intermarry. Would you consider such people to be sad and more narrow-minded than yourself?

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

The OP asked our opinion of someone avoiding an area for being "too white." I gave my opinion on that matter as well as related demographic trends (which are more on the side of fact than opinion).

And you made the transition from the specific to the general fairly easily, didn't you? You've clearly broadened the scope of this discussion beyond one single individual who has hangups about living around whites to make more sweeping statements about the alleged proclivities of an entire group of people. If that weren't the case, then why would you be posting studies discussing how racist black people supposedly are? If you were really sincere, you would simply say your spiel about him being wrong yada, yada and move on.

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

BTW, I was an "equal opportunity offender" when I was younger. I dated Asian, black, Hispanic and white as well as those of different religious backgrounds (atheist, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish and Muslim). When I eventually married, it was someone of a different ethnicity and a different religious background. I find differences fascinating.

Good for you. Do you want a cookie?

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

You didn't really answer my question. I mean, that's what J-Date is for. There's a lot of pressure in the community to intermarry. Would you consider such people to be sad and more narrow-minded than yourself?

Did you mean "intermarry" or "intramarry"? And, yes, I think it's sad to limit one's social interactions to people of only one religion. I am not against it, however. I am a strong believer in the right of free association. As a demographic fact, I believe Jews tend to intermarry (marry non-Jews) at a fairly high rate.

And you made the transition from the specific to the general fairly easily, didn't you?

I think that's unavoidable given the nature of the discussion. I believe I made it quite clear, however, that there is a difference, both moral and scientific, between attempting to stereotype an individual based on his "group" and describing general trends based on observed, measurable reality. Scientists do the latter all the time. There wouldn't be science of any kind without it.

But it is curious that a someone saying "Nah, don't want to live in western Fairfax because it's too white -- they might be racist" doesn't cause much consternation among some folks, but the suggestion to consider the possibility to the contrary that "Maybe it could be racist to assume that majority white areas are automatically racist against blacks" seems to bring forth cries of "easy generalization!"

to make more sweeping statements about the alleged proclivities of an entire group of people.

You clearly seem not to understand the difference between "sweeping statements about the alleged proclivities..." and observed general or average trends. Do you have a problem with doctors and scientists pointing out vastly differing rates of heart disease among people of different population groupings and attempting to find the causes both inherited and environmental?

Good for you. Do you want a cookie?

Had lots of good cookies, thanks.

[JD984]

I guess I'm feeling like the "black friend" in the OP needs to come across more like a real human being, and less like a rhetorical construct, to weigh in on the suitability of Western Fairfax for anyone else. These "why are there so many of these here" and "why aren't there more of those there" posts all start to sound very, very familiar.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Do you have a problem with doctors and scientists pointing out vastly differing rates of heart disease among people of different population groupings and attempting to find the causes both inherited and environmental?

This is not a social scientific forum, either in tone or expertise.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

I am a strong believer in the right of free association

Thank GOD for the enlightenment

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire at BrainyQuote

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by JEB77

I guess I'm feeling like the "black friend" in the OP needs to come across more like a real human being, and less like a rhetorical construct, to weigh in on the suitability of Western Fairfax for anyone else. These "why are there so many of these here" and "why aren't there more of those there" posts all start to sound very, very familiar.

I don't always agree with you JEB77, but your posts make me laugh frequently.

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

This is not a social scientific forum, either in tone or expertise.

So we should all just rely on our feelings, hunches and prejudices and not observations and measurements of object reality in discussing social, demographic and geographic matters?

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Thank GOD for the enlightenment

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire at BrainyQuote

The Enlightenment wasn't all bad.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

So we should all just rely on our feelings, hunches and prejudices and not observations and measurements of object reality in discussing social, demographic and geographic matters?

I would suggest we simply drop discussions of which races or ethnic groups are more inclined to assimilate, which are more racist, etc.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Did you mean "intermarry" or "intramarry"? And, yes, I think it's sad to limit one's social interactions to people of only one religion. I am not against it, however. I am a strong believer in the right of free association. As a demographic fact, I believe Jews tend to intermarry (marry non-Jews) at a fairly high rate.

Yes, I meant intra marriage.

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

I think that's unavoidable given the nature of the discussion. I believe I made it quite clear, however, that there is a difference, both moral and scientific, between attempting to stereotype an individual based on his "group" and describing general trends based on observed, measurable reality. Scientists do the latter all the time. There wouldn't be science of any kind without it.

Why is it unavoidable? You just said that you were responding specifically to the scenario described in the OP. The OP was talking about one person. There's no reason why you couldn't state your opinion with regard to that one person and then keep it moving.

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

But it is curious that a someone saying "Nah, don't want to live in western Fairfax because it's too white -- they might be racist" doesn't cause much consternation among some folks, but the suggestion to consider the possibility to the contrary that "Maybe it could be racist to assume that majority white areas are automatically racist against blacks" seems to bring forth cries of "easy generalization!"

I didn't discern this from the OP. There are reasons that African Americans may not want to live around a lot of white people other than them thinking that all white people are Klansmen. A lot of it is just comfort level. For example, I was never big into drinking in college (still not), but a lot of my classmates were. My co-workers are definitely big drinkers. Drinking is just not a big deal in the black community. But if you're at a professional event and you're not drinking, more than a few people will look at you like there's something off about you. They may not think negatively of you, but just find it peculiar that you don't like alcohol. That's one example of a certain type of social pressure that can make blacks feel awkward in some situations.

There could also be concerns about little things like finding a barbershop, finding a potential black spouse, etc. It's also nice to walk into a restaurant and hear some R&B from time to time. So it's not necessarily that the person described in the OP sees nothing but white devils out in Fairfax County. It may just not offer what he's looking for.