[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by swake

I think you may be biased. Most people in Tulsa consider the area the midwest. I certainly do and my family has been here for almost 100 years.

The local news outlets certainly don't agree with you. There are many news articles from the last two weeks that call Tulsa/Oklahoma the Midwest:

Tulsa World | Survey: Midwest economy should keep growing
Survey: Midwest economy should keep growing - Tulsa World: Finance

Enid News | Far beyond humble beginnings: For Meibergens and Johnston Grain, it’s a family affair
Far beyond humble beginnings: For Meibergens and Johnston Grain, it


Tahlequah Daily Press | Tinsley time
Tinsley time » Sports » Tahlequah Daily Press


Altsounds | Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival
Read more at Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival - #AltSounds
Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival - #AltSounds


News on 6 | Port Of Catoosa Begins Work On Major Dock Renovation Project
Port Of Catoosa Begins Work On Major Dock Renovation Project - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

Several of the articles mention Arkansas and Louisiana. When have any of these states been really associated with the Midwest? The one article about the coach mentions all the games he won in Louisiana too. So are those games included in the designation that he is a "legend in the Midwest"?

Even the article about the Port of Catoosa mentions that it will be a essentially a gateway to other areas such as Arkansas and Louisiana. Again, if this is YOUR definition of what constitutes the Midwest then so be it; you're just wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether accurate or inaccurate. It appears from your thinking, and what I can gather from the articles, that anything that is central is the Midwest. Technically speaking this is an erroneous idea. Again, look at the Census and the vast majority of regional associations and you just don't find Arkansas, Oklahoma, and certainly not Louisiana as part of the Midwest. These are South-Central states (West South Central if you're going by the Census), especially Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas.

The one article about Hanson (I struggled to get through it because of the artist) mentions "Oklahoma and the midwest." That's quite vague. Again, what states is the author including in designation of Midwest? Are these merely central states again? I estimate that the answer is probably yes, and that would certainly include Arkansas, Texas, and maybe even Louisiana in the "central" designation along with Oklahoma.

I think it's clear to everyone that you're really reaching here. You're other posts indicate that you may have biases against anything associated with that which is Southern. Are you worried that all Southerners, with Okies included in that group, are prejudiced bigots? Maybe we're missing most of our teeth and like to stroke the banjo every night while Mama fries the possum? I think it's pretty clear that you have some pretty-deep seated biases too.

Or maybe you're a Deep South Purist? Only Bammer, Mississippi, Georgia, and South Carolina are the South to you?

Either way, I don't think the articles you listed are as near as strong at proving your point as you would like to think.

Cheers My Southern/Okie Brother!

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

The AP Stylebook that is a required handbook for journalist but often neglected.

South
As defined by the U.S.
Census Bureau, the 16-state
region is broken into three divisions.

The four East South Central
states are Alabama, Kentucky,
Mississippi and Tennessee.
The eight

South Atlantic states are
Delaware, Florida, Georgia,
Maryland, North Carolina, South
Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia.

The four West South Central
states are Arkansas, Louisiana,
Oklahoma and Texas.
http://www.quarterboundpress.com/qbp...ide%202005.pdf


So whenever you run across a commercial or a article that mentions Oklahoma as a midwestern state you have one of two scenarios in play.

1. They are too lazy to use an approved stylebook
2. Have a bias and want to change the perception(this is the most probable scenario for Tulsa writers)

You are outgunned here. I have given you concrete sources that outline settlement patterns, culture, religion and politics. All you have is a strong desire to disassociate Oklahoma with the south using examples of lazy journalism and uneducated writers.

and to be honest with you, Tulsa really doesn't matter. It's the only area you find these people and not the cultural espicenter in Okalhoma. The majority of people in Oklahoma City and all other towns in Oklahoma consider Oklahoma southern or western south.

Facts don't work too well with him. I think he must be the great-great grandson of a Yankee oil baron. Carryin' on the family legacy.

[okie1962]

I feel Eastern Oklahoma is more Southern than rest of the state, but with that being said, most of the time our local media and newspaper refer to us as being the midwest. I never really paid that much attention until these strange arguments started happening about Oklahoma being Southern and if you didn't believe that you were some kind of uninformed American hating heathen.

About the only time I hear any reference to us as being Southern is when I hear of us as being on the Southern Plains. In no way do I feel like OKC is a Southern City. What other Southern City sits on the Great Plains? What other Southern City is as dry as OKC? What other Southern City has blizzards like OKC? Any other Souther City as Windy as OKC?

What Southern city is OKC most like?

[Rubi3]

It's a mystery to me why the specific designation is so important to some.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by okie1962

I feel Eastern Oklahoma is more Southern than rest of the state, but with that being said, most of the time our local media and newspaper refer to us as being the midwest. I never really paid that much attention until these strange arguments started happening about Oklahoma being Southern and if you didn't believe that you were some kind of uninformed American hating heathen.

About the only time I hear any reference to us as being Southern is when I hear of us as being on the Southern Plains. In no way do I feel like OKC is a Southern City. What other Southern City sits on the Great Plains? What other Southern City is as dry as OKC? What other Southern City has blizzards like OKC? Any other Souther City as Windy as OKC?

What Southern city is OKC most like?

Uninformed? Maybe. An "American hating heathen" would be just a tad extreme.

As for other Southern cities on the Plains, well, Tulsa and virtually every large(r) city in Tejas (Fort Worth could OKC's twin, Lubbock and Amarillo, Abilene, College Station & Austin...OK, maybe NOT Austin and that's a GOOD thing) with the exception of Houston. And more tangential to the Plains the candidates are Fort Smith and then Fayettville and to a lesser extent Little Rock and Nashville.

BTW, I think you're focusing mainly on topographical traits again. Much of the dialogue in the thread, however, has centered on cultural elements. Just FYI.

[Rubi3]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Uninformed? Maybe. An "American hating heathen" would be just a tad extreme.

<snipped>

Much of the dialogue in the thread, however, has centered on cultural elements. Just FYI.

Hey! I rather like the image of a wild-eyed American hating heathen in my mind's eye. And, besides, imo, my cultural elements are right up there with NYC and any other major city.

[eddie gein]

Again, I think the better way to say it is that the last vestiges of the midwest are probably found in Tulsa, much like the last vestiges of the south are found in central and northwestern Oklahoma. Similarly, the last vestiges of the northern plains are found in northern Oklahoma and the last vestiges of the southern plains are found in southern and central Oklahoma.

As I have stated before, Oklahoma is maybe more southern than anything else when generalizing it from a regional perspective. However, much of Oklahoma's northern portions are influenced by settlement from Missouri, Kansas and the northern plains.

[Rubi3]

I suppose all the others who have repeated what they said before will return to do it again, so I will also.

No matter how many influences occurred in whichever corner of the state or some part not in a corner or down a few miles towards the middle (or the panhandle), there will only be one umbrella designation to cover each and every notion no matter what. The label that works best, in general, is southwest, which clearly includes the word south. LOL

NEXT!

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by Rubi3

I suppose all the others who have repeated what they said before will return to do it again, so I will also.

No matter how many influences occurred in whichever corner of the state or some part not in a corner or down a few miles towards the middle (or the panhandle), there will only be one umbrella designation to cover each and every notion no matter what. The label that works best, in general, is southwest, which clearly includes the word south. LOL

NEXT!

I agree!

[johnspecial]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

Again, I think the better way to say it is that the last vestiges of the midwest are probably found in Tulsa, much like the last vestiges of the south are found in central and northwestern Oklahoma. Similarly, the last vestiges of the northern plains are found in northern Oklahoma and the last vestiges of the southern plains are found in southern and central Oklahoma.

As I have stated before, Oklahoma is maybe more southern than anything else when generalizing it from a regional perspective. However, much of Oklahoma's northern portions are influenced by settlement from Missouri, Kansas and the northern plains.

That is also not true considering there never has been much human population above Oklahoma. Kansas influences Oklahoma about as much as Rhode Island influenced New York. Oklahoma influences Kansas. It's been that way since statehood. Settlement has traditionally moved from east to west. Almost all of Oklahoma's foundation has come from the old south.