The Official Oklahoma Forum Chattin' Thread (Haskell, Cherokee: home, rent, work)

[karibear]

I’ve been reading a lot of this thread, I got through about half of it tonight. Then I came to the NA part. Living in Alaska for so long, I lived alongside a lot of Alaska Natives. I started out as a cook on a salmon boat and worked with Native crewmen. Then I worked for quite a few years in the local high school, and worked with a lot of Native kids. My last job was working as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for the Native Association. There are differences between Alaska and the Lower 48 regarding Native Americans, the main one being that the whole state is officially considered "Indian Country" and there is only one actual reservation. Essentially, each Borough [sort of equivalent to a county, but there aren’t nearly so many of them] has it’s own Native Association, and it includes health and social services primarily. But there are a lot of other things, as well. One of the biggest differences is that the first thing we looked at wasn’t ‘do they live on the reservation’ but ‘do they have a verifiable tribal affiliation or BIA card.’ It wasn’t limited to Alaska Natives, either, any member of any tribe was eligible for services.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]One of the more interesting things is that back in the pre-statehood days, various churches divided up the state between them, so part of the state’s Natives are Catholic, and part are Baptist. And still others are Russian Orthodox. Some, of course, have changed to other religious affiliations, but I’ve never heard of a Native American Church there. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one, just that in 30+ years I never heard of it.

[redbird4848]

Originally Posted by karibear

[font=Arial]
[SIZE=4]One of the more interesting things is that back in the pre-statehood days, various churches divided up the state between them, so part of the state’s Natives are Catholic, and part are Baptist. And still others are Russian Orthodox. Some, of course, have changed to other religious affiliations, but I’ve never heard of a Native American Church there. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one, just that in 30+ years I never heard of it.

Hello Karibear, welcome.

Ask most non-Indians here in OK (or any other state) when and where the next NAC meeting is and they will give you a blank stare.

This peyote road requires great sacrifice in that the meetings last from sundown to sun up and are held in a tipi, usually on someones's land way out in the country. For a brief glimpse into the beautiful music of this sacred path known as the Peyote Road, here is a link that offers tidbits of songs from various tribes, all of which are NAC.

http://www.coolrunningsmusic.com/NAC.html

Down here in the lower 48, we say Native American Church (NAC) when we are referring to peyote meetings. Is that what you were referring to? Sorry, I should've asked.

I went to an all Indian school called Haskell in KS, and there were 98 Alaskan Natives. I loved them as I do all my Native brothers and sisters. Have some good stories to tell on them too!!

[redbird4848]

Originally Posted by karibear

[font=Arial]
[SIZE=4]One of the more interesting things is that back in the pre-statehood days, various churches divided up the state between them, so part of the state’s Natives are Catholic, and part are Baptist. And still others are Russian Orthodox.

Yes, that is quite common here too. I brought this up on the religion thread where they *discuss* religion all day.

When the white man came to this country, the ministers were foaming at the mouth with the thought of saving the souls of all those poor savage Indians.

The ministers were great men, IMHO, in that they often came with one intention, to preach the gospel as opposed to kill or take land.
We had churches settle on different parts of our reservation (*before the white man broke that treaty too), so that basically different geographical parts of the rez where affiliated with different denominations.

But we Indians always saw it ~all~ as the Jesus Road. I have never understood why the white man bickers among his denominations as to who is holding the TRUTH. But hey, that is a differnt topic for a different forum!

An interesting note (I remind myself of Cliff on Cheers) is that up in Ojibway country (AKA Chippewa) one particular section of the rez was divided by a lake.
On the north side was the catholic and the southern was the protestant.

The protestant forbade any native language or songs to be sung in the Native toungue and told them to put away their pagan ceremonies.

The catholic on the north allowed the Natives to continue their language and their ceremonies. In a 100 year time span there were something like 120 suicides on the reservation, and 117 came from the southern side where the native culture was squashed.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

The catholic on the north allowed the Natives to continue their language and their ceremonies. In a 100 year time span there were something like 120 suicides on the reservation, and 117 came from the southern side where the native culture was squashed.

I can see that. I think that was one of the main reasons for many decades that the Indian tribes suffered from so much alcoholism and suicides, because they were looked down upon by the whites and even those within their own tribe for wanting to practice their own culture. Think about it, how would you like to be made to feel that the very essence of your culture was "wrong." It's a horrible situation.

I may be wrong, but with the resurgence of NA culture, and pride in such, I'm hoping this is changing for the better. What are your thoughts on that redbird?

[peggydavis]

The NA around me seem to belong to either Methodist or Baptist churches. They have evolved so people from white churches of those denominations would probably not recognize much about the services. They sing hymns in the Creek language. IMO they have helped preserve the culture through the years since statehood, withstanding the many attempts to "assimilate" them into the white culture. Just my opinion.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by peggydavis

The NA around me seem to belong to either Methodist or Baptist churches. They have evolved so people from white churches of those denominations would probably not recognize much about the services. They sing hymns in the Creek language. IMO they have helped preserve the culture through the years since statehood, withstanding the many attempts to "assimilate" them into the white culture. Just my opinion.

Good for them. I do know that the many Choctaws and Chickasaws that I know are doing their best to keep their culture and even help promote it both within their tribes and to others that are not NA. I think it's great.

The funny thing is most whites or non NAs thing that the Indians lived in nothing but tipis, but I have had classes on the Chickasaw culture and they had great cities with areas for congregation, homes, and the like. Very similar to the Aztec or the Mayans in many ways.

If you've never been to the Gilcrease in Tulsa, they really do have some spectacular paintings depicting Indian life. Here are a few samples:

Creek Chiefs:



Four Dance Figures:


Too Old for the Rabbit Hunt:






AN EPISODE OF THE BUFFALO HUNT


Bear Dance (Sioux)



Cheyenne War Dance


Sneaking Out:



Mourning Her Brave


Black Hawk and his son, Whirling Thunder

[redbird4848]

I read somewhere that Oklahoma has more horses per capita than any other state in US.

Five of them are in my backyard and they don't even belong to me! I've heard of stray dogs, but stray horses? Come on!

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I read somewhere that Oklahoma has more horses per capita than any other state in US.

Five of them are in my backyard and they don't even belong to me! I've heard of stray dogs, but stray horses? Come on!

Go out there and ride 'em redbird! That'll teach him to not fix his fence!

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I read somewhere that Oklahoma has more horses per capita than any other state in US.

And we have more horses in total than all but three states....Texas, California, and Florida

[mkfarnam]

Originally Posted by karibear

I’ve been reading a lot of this thread, I got through about half of it tonight. Then I came to the NA part. Living in Alaska for so long, I lived alongside a lot of Alaska Natives. I started out as a cook on a salmon boat and worked with Native crewmen. Then I worked for quite a few years in the local high school, and worked with a lot of Native kids. My last job was working as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for the Native Association. There are differences between Alaska and the Lower 48 regarding Native Americans, the main one being that the whole state is officially considered "Indian Country" and there is only one actual reservation. Essentially, each Borough [sort of equivalent to a county, but there aren’t nearly so many of them] has it’s own Native Association, and it includes health and social services primarily. But there are a lot of other things, as well. One of the biggest differences is that the first thing we looked at wasn’t ‘do they live on the reservation’ but ‘do they have a verifiable tribal affiliation or BIA card.’ It wasn’t limited to Alaska Natives, either, any member of any tribe was eligible for services.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]One of the more interesting things is that back in the pre-statehood days, various churches divided up the state between them, so part of the state’s Natives are Catholic, and part are Baptist. And still others are Russian Orthodox. Some, of course, have changed to other religious affiliations, but I’ve never heard of a Native American Church there. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one, just that in 30+ years I never heard of it.

I guess that's where "The Bible Belt" comes in.