The Official Oklahoma Forum Chattin' Thread (home, work, college)

[karibear]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

Hello Karibear, welcome.

Down here in the lower 48, we say Native American Church (NAC) when we are referring to peyote meetings. Is that what you were referring to? Sorry, I should've asked.

I went to an all Indian school called Haskell in KS, and there were 98 Alaskan Natives. I loved them as I do all my Native brothers and sisters. Have some good stories to tell on them too!!

Actually, my comment was intended to be much broader than specifically focusing on just the peyote part. After thinking about it overnight, I suppose there might be one or more NAC groups in the Anchorage area, but if so, I'd bet a nickel they were brought in from Outside.

The 'Native' religion of southern Alaska is the Russian Orthodox. There is a seminary in Kodiak to train new priests, and Fr Herman was sanctified in '70 or '71, long before Mother Theresa came along.

But what really brought it home to me was a workshop in the late '90s. Two silversmiths came to teach, one a Navaho and one a Zuni [I think]. There are quite a few petroglyphs around Kodiak, nowhere within walking distance but easily gotten to with a skiff, and they asked what the meanings were, what the legends were. Total blank stares. No one knew what the meanings were, and there were no legends. It had all been extinguished during the years the Russian fur traders had been there, before Seward negotiated the purchase. If you asked someone [in the '70s] to speak a few words of the Native language, you were more likely than not to get Russian words. Since then, one of the archeologists has made a monumental effort in research and sort or recreated the Alutiiq language.

There are a lot of truly marvelous artifacts left at various archeological sites, and there are still people who can make things like grass baskets - and a woven grass basket that is tight enough to hold water is marvelous, indeed! But there are no stories, no legends, no hint of spirituality that doesn't lead back to one or another type of missionary.

[redbird4848]

Karibear,

Well, I wouldn't be too quick to judge the locals especially regarding the reactions to the Kodiak petroglyphs. How do you know the origin of the petryglyphs were associated with the tribal members you asked? What age was the petroglyphs?

The petroglyphs found in the SW USA deserts were drawn by prehistoric peoples not assicated with the tribes who dwell in the desert today.

Archological evidence shows the early cliff dwellers called the Anasazi are not the same as the modern Hopi or Navaho. So I wouldn't make a generalization about the locals being totally acculturated because they cannot decipher petroglyphs from an archeological site.

As for language, yes the tribal languages have been terribly decimated. All the fluent speakers from my tribe are elderly. That is another good reason to pass on the songs. And singing the christian hymns in our native language provides a good way to relearn the language.

As for Peyote, it would HAVE to be brought in to Alaska, as the origins of Peyote were from what is now Mexico. It is said the Apaches brought the Peyote Way to the Comanches, who shared it with my tribe. It has since spread to Canada and most of the tribes in US.

The Alaskan Natives I met at Haskell were very diverse and from all parts of Alakska, even from North Slope. One of the guys I knew was considered to be a witch amongst his people. Do not write off the Natives. I never tell the pale faces all I know, and we are experts at giving the blank stare!

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I never tell the pale faces all I know, and we are experts at giving the blank stare!

Dangit, I knew you were holding out on me redbird...

[Huckleberry3911948]

happy new year, prosperity and health!

[karibear]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

Karibear,

Well, I wouldn't be too quick to judge the locals especially regarding the reactions to the Kodiak petroglyphs. How do you know the origin of the petryglyphs were associated with the tribal members you asked? What age was the petroglyphs?


The Alaskan Natives I met at Haskell were very diverse and from all parts of Alakska, even from North Slope. One of the guys I knew was considered to be a witch amongst his people. Do not write off the Natives. I never tell the pale faces all I know, and we are experts at giving the blank stare!

I wasn't referring just to the petroglyphs, and I certainly wasn't intending to sound as if I were writing anyone off!

The men who were giving the workshop on silversmithing asked about any and all legends and stories, and no one could tell them anything. And there were Natives from all over the state in Kodiak - Yupik, Inupiat, Alutiiq [Aleuts to those who don't know about the name change], Athabascan, Tlingit, not to mention the ones from the Lower 48. And various tribal groups within the larger groups. A lot of them were my friends. What I learned about the history of Alaska Natives is what they told me themselves. I also knew a young woman who was well on her way to becoming a shaman - she'd grown up in a very small village in Southeastern and didn't learn English until she started school.

It's not just the Natives there that I met. Since I was employed by the Native Association, I went to a lot of conferences, both in the state and down along the west coast. I met a lot of representatives of other tribes throughout the west - I don't recall anyone from east of the Mississippi, though.

I've also been fascinated by the history of Native Americans, my father's family was at least half Apache. My husband's mother was Cherokee and Quapaw. One of the things that did frustrate me was that I could never find anyone, as a representative of a tribe, who was interested in passing along any kind of culltural information about my own heritage. They pretty much had the attitude "If you are a child we can raise on the rez, fine. If you're an adult, forget it." I never could see any difference between wanting to know about that part of my history and visiting, for instance, Ireland or Germany, because some of my ancestors came from there, also.

[LadyRobyn]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I read somewhere that Oklahoma has more horses per capita than any other state in US.

Five of them are in my backyard and they don't even belong to me! I've heard of stray dogs, but stray horses? Come on!

Sweet Pea laughs at you! Stray horses... huh!

[redbird4848]

Originally Posted by karibear

I've also been fascinated by the history of Native Americans, my father's family was at least half Apache. My husband's mother was Cherokee and Quapaw. One of the things that did frustrate me was that I could never find anyone, as a representative of a tribe, who was interested in passing along any kind of culltural information about my own heritage.

I have always been interested in all cultures. That is why I majored in cultural anthropology in college.

When I graduated, I came home (OK) and took a tape recorder with me to visit the oldest member of my tribe. He was a hoot! He was 98 at the time and spry like a little dwarf. He received an honorary PhD from Univ. of Colorado in Linguistics for creating an alphabet for our language.

Anyway, its like a test to find an elder willing to pass on wisdom. Like they say, when you are ready, a teacher will come.

A lot of traditional elders and medicine men and women are looking for someone to pass their knowledge to. Could be, your move to Oklahoma is your first step. Indians are different. You can't just walk up to one and say teach me, I am interested. They will scope you out and read you like a book.

If you show you are of good heart and not just looking to write a book or a college term paper, or whatever they will eventually open up. Sometimes its how we carry OURSELVES that determines whether or not they speak to us.

One of the first things you need to know, ESPECIALLY with elders is to hold your tongue. Don't interrupt. White people have this thing about incessant chatter. When an elder speaks and pauses, STAY SILENT. They may pause for one or two minutes at a time. They will continue at their own pace. If you just interject your own talk, they will shut down and shut you out. I've seen it a million times.

Learn how to conduct yourself in a respectful manner around elders and you will be accepted. We have very strict protocal around our elders. Everything that whites do is usually offensive and laughable to older Indians.

[mkfarnam]

click the sceen for the next pic, there's horses running in the snow here.

http://us.f501.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Sho...&VScan=1&Idx=0

[redbird4848]

Originally Posted by LadyRobyn

Sweet Pea laughs at you! Stray horses... huh!

Our strays are half starved and wild and wooly. When I chased them the leader tried to give me an attitude. I said, HORSE! This is MY pasture, you hear me? My grass, my pasture, my...

Then he raised his tail and started pooping.

[mkfarnam]

That means he give a sh*t