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Can you come up with one non-subjective statistic or apples to apples metric or demographic data point that supports this? Or, is this all speculation and opinion? Your assertion may well be a myth or assumption.
No. As I said. I do not place much merit in statistics. They are always twisted to make a point. My basis is 22 years of personal observation (both me and my wife) including 10 years of substantial involvement with schools as a volunteer. Unless you are referring to the rates for teen pregnancies vs. teen birth rates and abortion rates. There are lot of statistics available on this. California's abortion rate is about double that of MI on a per-capita basis. However most of these studies are old (2001 or 2006) and based on CDC statistics which are notoriously inaccurate. Then of course there are no statistics for unreported pregnancies or abortions). For some reason a choice was made to use "teen birth rates" infomration rather than teen pregnancy infomration which is also available, but which shows a very different picture. Thus, demonstrating one of the reasons that I distrust statistical assertions.
Are we comparing kids from the same demographic? Income, parents marriage situation, parents education background, etc?
Yes.
And even if it is true (which I am not acknowledging), what is the magnitude of the difference? Are we talking 25% or 50% or are we talking something that is basically in the noise and irrelevant like 1% or 2%? I doubt the differences are that big. There is too much homogeneity in our society these days.
It is a major difference. How do you put a percentage on it. As far as jr. high school girls dressing like hookers the difference is 100%. By high school age, probably more like 80%. As far as the general moral atmosphere, no you cannot put a percentage on that. It is not possible to measure moral atmosphere. I hear this homogeneity argument at lot, but always from coasters who do not want to admit that morals are different in other places. The difference is considerable. It is immediately noticeable.
If midwest communities are slightly more "moral" (whatever that really means anyway) then is it worth it to live there considering all the other benefits of Southern California?
It depends on the person and their priorities. When we were first out of school, the moral atmosphere was not an issue, we did not notice it and got somewhat caught up in it without realizing. With kids, it becomes more of a factor. However good active parents can raise decent upstanding children in a poor moral atmosphere. It is just more work and takes some luck. Would the moral atmosphere alone have been enough to make us move? Probably not, it is hard to say. It became a supporting factor, but establishing a relationship between our immediate family and our extended family was the primary driving factor. Given the damage that the move has done to my career, if we did not have the family issues, it may have been preferable to stay and just work harder in the parenting aspect and hope that our kids did not run afoul of the prevailing trends. However there were additional reasons, one being we wanted to move, but we could not find anyplace that we both liked and could afford (which is remarkable given our income level)
By the way - I thought I saw someone on here post they've never been to Vegas. Please DO go. It's a blast! You don't have to be a gambler. The shows are amazing and the food is awesome. Heck - just walking the strip is a show in itself (and walking through some of the hotels - my favorite is the Mirage. Do they still have the white tigers?)! It's a shame to live so close and never see it. Treat yourself royal (even if it's just one time) ;-)
that was me
idk maybe someday, but i'm just not really thrilled either way. i've actually been to primm valley to gamble... thats as close as i've ever gotten to vegas. just not my thing
We used to go to Primm Valley - I won $300 on a nickel slot machine there. We just arrived and I put a $5.00 bill in the slot, cranked the arm and WHAM! Ding! Ding! Ding! I was jumping up n' down thinkin' I hit some huge windfall. My husband laughed at me, but at least it paid for some rent! LOL And I used to ride the Desperado - got whipped in the face with someone's lighter and sunglasses... and some change. Those were the days! Anyway - yeah- Vegas is not for everyone. Sometimes I like the hustle n' bustle and other times I just want peace and quiet! :-)
I lived in Mission Viejo for 13 years and don't miss one thing about south OC. Has anyone mentioned Laguna? If you got to live there, you would think "Heaven."
I lived in Mission Viejo for 13 years and don't miss one thing about south OC. Has anyone mentioned Laguna? If you got to live there, you would think "Heaven."
OC is a lot of different things.
Laguna is beautiful, expensive for a reason for sure...
So BTW, where did you move to?
Lots of comments from Midwesterners who have children on this thread. My husband and I discuss this because our 2 nephews in HB are at the top of their game and their parents stay on top of them. One has been class president for like 3 yrs. and the younger one is working on it, both involved with alot of extra-curricular activites like martial arts, just participated in a historical re-enactment for Labor Day weekend, oldest represented his class in Washington, D.C. recently. Both parents work and the kids are tutored if Mom thinks they are not excelling in something. Horrible? No, not at all. The kids today are a different generation than ours, folks, and it's a competitive world. Better to prepare them for it. Moral fiber. Moral fiber. Moral fiber...a must no matter where you choose to raise your family. My husband couldn''t believe the little girl walking the aisles at the grocery store just lettin' it all hang out but your children look to you to set the bar....do it. We have 2 nieces the same age as the nephews but in Michigan and believe me...it all comes down to parenting. Easier for parenting in the midwest? Sure, but they miss out on other things that will give them that edge as we push them out of the nest. OC parents have to be vigilant since money is constantly in their little faces. We've personally witnessed some great OC parenting . Midwestern parents have to be vigilant because the kids simply have too much time on their hands. I have seen time and time again the 'overly' religious parents push their girls away by rigidity....education and teaching self respect are key for our daughters and sons so try to find your balance, Dads, and keep the skirts long enough to cover the cheeks but educate on the teen pregancies instead of making them wear rings, which never goes far from what I hear for too long.
Lots of comments from Midwesterners who have children on this thread. My husband and I discuss this because our 2 nephews in HB are at the top of their game and their parents stay on top of them. One has been class president for like 3 yrs. and the younger one is working on it, both involved with alot of extra-curricular activites like martial arts, just participated in a historical re-enactment for Labor Day weekend, oldest represented his class in Washington, D.C. recently. Both parents work and the kids are tutored if Mom thinks they are not excelling in something. Horrible? No, not at all. The kids today are a different generation than ours, folks, and it's a competitive world. Better to prepare them for it. Moral fiber. Moral fiber. Moral fiber...a must no matter where you choose to raise your family. My husband couldn''t believe the little girl walking the aisles at the grocery store just lettin' it all hang out but your children look to you to set the bar....do it. We have 2 nieces the same age as the nephews but in Michigan and believe me...it all comes down to parenting. Easier for parenting in the midwest? Sure, but they miss out on other things that will give them that edge as we push them out of the nest. OC parents have to be vigilant since money is constantly in their little faces. We've personally witnessed some great OC parenting . Midwestern parents have to be vigilant because the kids simply have too much time on their hands. I have seen time and time again the 'overly' religious parents push their girls away by rigidity....education and teaching self respect are key for our daughters and sons so try to find your balance, Dads, and keep the skirts long enough to cover the cheeks but educate on the teen pregancies instead of making them wear rings, which never goes far from what I hear for too long.
I certainly agree with a lot of what you say, but I don't think it's necessarily easier to parent a child in one place over another. I've lived in NY, CA and now SC. There's good and bad parenting everywhere. The problem seems to be values are dwindling and kids are turning out to be smarta@@es. Nothing is taboo anymore. You are right about teaching kids moral fiber. I'm with you 110% on that one. They also need to be taught respect - self and otherwise. All you can do is your best and pray that peer pressure and outside influences don't get in the way. Let's face it - when it comes to parenting - everyone's not on the same page. Some aren't even ON a page! They just let their kids do whatever.
Friends of mine went out to dinner with us and brought their young girl who is just a year younger than ours. They are actually "besties" and play together all of the time, but the girl is a little on the wild side. Well - their daughter kept hopping over the restaurant booth to go to the restroom and then would hop back into her seat and her parents just laughed. My girl looked like she wanted to do the same, but just the look I gave her made her think twice. My friends looked embarrassed. They could tell I didn't approve of their girl "seat hopping". I love them, but I didn't care. Just small annoying actions like hopping on furniture (in public no less!) can lead to bigger self-destructive behavior down the road. I feel like if you want your kids to succeed anymore you have to have a very tight leash on them because the majority of folks out there seem to accept little misbehaviors.
Interesting enough, when their girl is at our house she is better behaved. She used to jump on my furniture and I wasn't shy about letting her know that behavior wasn't welcome in my house. But - when my girl goes to her house to play, I have to wonder is MY girl jumping on furniture there because her friend's parents let their child do just that and think it's fine.
My husband said it best - it's like you want to just put your kids in a giant tupperware bowl and keep them safe from outside influences, but you have to let them grow on their own and just parent them the best you can.
Sorry this got so off topic! Now - we were talking about regrets about OC?
It is widely expensive living in the OC, moved here from Indiana 7 years ago and found nothing but problems making friends and meeting decent men. People here do not care a bit about you but just what you can do for them. Very lonely. I've grown alot professionally but lack in personal friendships.
The only regret I could have is moving to OC instead of Thousand Oaks near where our parents live. The thing is, I think I will have better employment opportunities in and near OC as I can commute to LA and SD in a pinch. The commuting potential without traffic in OC is better than from TO. Otherwise, TO and OC are very similar.
I saw this question posed in the San Diego forums and thought it was interesting.
If you moved to Orange County from another part of the country, do you have any regrets? Are there things you miss that OC doesn't have?
While I love CA, aside from the obvious family, friends, etc., the things I'll miss when I go back to CA are my local park and east coast beach towns with boardwalks and warm water.
Sounds nuts, I know. But I grew up spending a lot of time in beach towns with boardwalks such as Cape May (my fave before the pups), Rehoboth Beach (my fave after the pups), Wildwood, Ocean City, etc. and there's just nothing quite like them on the west coast (yes, I know about Venice Beach).
Though I can fly to them from CA, I'll miss the spontaneous drives out to them, too (sometimes just to get haystacks on the boardwalk, play in the sand, then drive back to get to work in the morning with sand still in the car). Ahhhh....
And a bonus to not living at the beach, is leaving life behind when you go. When I lived walking distance to the beach in CA, it didn't have nearly the same relaxing effect because I still had life to tend to - errands, bills, ringing phone, etc.
But did I have any regrets when I moved to CA last time, and will I this time? No.
Last edited by dclamb3; 03-01-2012 at 08:11 PM..
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OC vs. Other
