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I mountain bike through the Deschutes forest almost daily. Sometimes I jump off the excellent single-track system on to the older forest logging roads. I am always amazed at the amount of trash I see. Most often it is dozens of beer cans and bottles. Just wondered is the liter problem a side effect as Californians invaded the state? I rarely see liter on the single-track trail system.
I mountain bike through the Deschutes forest almost daily. Sometimes I jump off the excellent single-track system on to the older forest logging roads. I am always amazed at the amount of trash I see. Most often it is dozens of beer cans and bottles. Just wondered is the liter problem a side effect as Californians invaded the state? I rarely see liter on the single-track trail system.
I believe this to be a side effect of the economy. People can't afford to take things to the dump, so they'll drive it up into the forest and dump it there. It's a pretty well known fact that illegal dumping in general increases during times of economic recession.
BTW there is a subset of people who make spending money picking up that trash, recycling what they can (for money) and searching for any evidence of who it belongs too and turning that over to the police. If there is a conviction, they'll get 10% of the fine which is usually $50-$100. I talked to one guy in 2008 who said he'd made about $1500 the year before just off fines and close to $10,000 off recycling the rest.
BTW there is a subset of people who make spending money picking up that trash, recycling what they can (for money) and searching for any evidence of who it belongs too and turning that over to the police. If there is a conviction, they'll get 10% of the fine which is usually $50-$100. I talked to one guy in 2008 who said he'd made about $1500 the year before just off fines and close to $10,000 off recycling the rest.
That's pretty awesome. Whenever I put out my glass for recycling I notice that most of it's gone before it's due to be picked up. Figured it was something to this effect.
"Of course, every person has a sob story to tell and tries to rationalize why what they do is alright. What breaks my heart is to see all the beautiful forests and "old-quaint towns" in Oregon be pummeled to put up more wealthy homes, subdivisions and giant marketplaces. I was watching them tear apart the farming communities outside of Beaverton to build more mansions and giant shopping centers that cater to the upper-class. Quite a heartbreaking, but common site these days. Just like in California."
Which is basically what happened in Bend, where the land-use laws were NOT rigorously enforced.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the saying:
"Don't Californicate Oregon."
So... next mission for the OP is, repeat your post in the Washington and Idaho forums, and see what the answers are there. Should be entertaining, in any event.
This exactly. What prospective newcomers do not realize is that when they make comments about how they are looking for big box stores or those things they want to be here that they have wherever they are from they do not realize the red flag they are waving.
For example, everytime I see someone posting they want to move and ask if there is a Whole Foods Market where they are relocating, I get a little bit annoyed.
I think of the fact that in Portland we do have WF's but at the expense of the demise of the wonderful locally owned "Nature's" and "Wild Oats" markets that couldn't compete with them.
It just appears to me that people who say they want "old-quaint towns" or "quirky neighborhoods" still want to have all those things that make a town or a city anything but.
I believe this to be a side effect of the economy. People can't afford to take things to the dump, so they'll drive it up into the forest and dump it there. It's a pretty well known fact that illegal dumping in general increases during times of economic recession.
BTW there is a subset of people who make spending money picking up that trash, recycling what they can (for money) and searching for any evidence of who it belongs too and turning that over to the police. If there is a conviction, they'll get 10% of the fine which is usually $50-$100. I talked to one guy in 2008 who said he'd made about $1500 the year before just off fines and close to $10,000 off recycling the rest.
I've talked to a few folks who said they have made pretty fair money on the bounty for Northern Pikeminnow, on the Columbia River.
You might want to check out Leavenworth, Wa. Its a beautiful, quaint little "Bavarian Village" up in the mountains, nature all around you. There are a handful of divisions where huge mansions on large plots of lands have been built so you'd fit right in. Luckily most of them are walkable to town because its so small.
I believe its about a 15 min drive to Wenatachee, where your major shopping would be done. No TJs or Whole Foods, but about 2 hours away is Seattle, so you could do bulk shopping every so often there.
I wasn't going to jump in again, but just have to say that when I moved from Oregon to northern Michigan, I LOVED pumping my own gas, even in a blizzard! I can't tell you how many times men drive up after me and get helped and pay before I do. I hate waiting too, and really don't mind getting out of the car.
And as to the forests, I can speak from experience that federal land budgets have been slashed so bad that there's probably no longer any personnel or money to clean up roads. Forest Service and BLM jobs used to be good jobs, but that's changing / changed... There have always been litter bugs in the forests. I just think now there's fewer people who clean up, not to mention the ever-increasing disposable bottle and food choices in the stores. not too long ago, if you wanted to bring water to the woods, you brought a canteen or cooler. And there's just more people in the state too, but it sure seems like fewer people camp primitive anymore, which is fine with me. I guess anymore there's too many withdrawal symptoms from lack of internet and cell phone service for most people to even consider it anymore.
And although I've never been to Southern California, I can't blame anyone for wanting to leave the place... One of the OP is a California native, and I'm sure they feel the same way about California being over run as many Oregonians do. I see it as more of a population growth problem than anything else. But after living in Michigan where so many people were trying to leave the state, and unemployment was over 25% in our county, I have a whole new perspective on growth. The opposite (shrinking economy) is worse (IMO). We traveled quite a bit in rural rust belt states, and it's a really sad sad state of affairs.
Hi Pres, as a 2nd generation (and since relocated) oregonian, I'd be happy to give you the scoop on the state
First off, to explain some of the prevailing attitudes. Oregon economy used to be based on two things: Fishing and Timber. The timber pretty much dried up in the 70s and Oregon trees are slow growing, so the boom has busted decades ago and the fishing isn't much to brag on anymore. Since then, in many parts of the state people have really struggled to make ends meet and prosper, in fact to this day there are only very small pockets in the state that has a stable growing economy.
To most of california, affluence has come cheap up till now. Oregonians have been watching californians come up and build ginormous houses, build resorts, change the politics, and I think it stings the pride to see people who are not oregonian change things so much.
When california money came in, so did the big chains. Land prices sky rocketed, (putting much out of the price range for lifelong citizens) and the big box stores have put out the local businesses.
Therine lies the problem in your request for a "quaint" town. Only touristy boardwalk towns make it anymore for the most part because if the big chain (cheap) shopping is only 30 mins-an hour away locals WILL NOT pay higher prices to support the small business any more. Neither can businesses survive waiting for "tourist season".
If you want a real down town, you're going to have to look for "serious shopping" 2 hrs+, and no walmart, or live in a tourist trap town with souvenir shops and salt water taffy stores that gets enough traffic from Portland.
But if you're just looking for a cute looking downtown with old buildings, a chamber of commerce a bank and some churches, you've got a lot more options. I would not readily volunteer that you came from California when you first meet people. They will react much like you have seen here. All cali transplants say they want an "easy going pace" when really they want cheaper houses, prettier country and no sales tax. I'm afraid no Oregonian will believe you until they get to know you!
Oregon is unique in that it has MAJORLY different climates and areas.
Bend, which you have heard so much about is high desert, the few trees there are big pines and scrubby juniper. It definitely has a "little california" feel to it with lots of chain stores, ostentatious houses, and lots of leisure activities and resorts. There is a bit of fishing, lots of hiking, good weather, some snow and some rain. It's also fairly financially stable, and fairly horsey and out doorsy. It is very close to Sisters which is known as a touristy small town with a famous quilt shop, lots of camp grounds and dude ranches, town festivals and tall pines. You could get away with living in either one and enjoy the benefits of the other. If you like that sort of thing it is really pretty country with lots of cool sites like the lava fields, ski resorts and the cascade locks. Because most of the trees are pines, you won't get the lovely "fall colors" much.
If wine country and rolling hills is more your thing, you may want to check out Salem and Silverton. Salem has many advantages of big box shopping (not ALL chains, but many), a fairly thriving downtown, local AND chain restaurants and businesses, and has the lovely state capitol building. I lived there for 4 years and loved everything but the politics (no judgement I hope, but I'm not a democrat, and I was tired of my vote being moot ) The people were nice, the traffic was a breeze, the rural country was lovely, and there were lots of things to do. The beaches are an hour, Portland is an hour, the high dessert is less than 2 hours, and they love their parks! (If you visit be sure to check out Bush park in downtown, and Willamette Missions state park in Brooks just north on the I-5, and silver falls state park) The weather is SO mild. Summer frequently hits the mid 90s and people only complain their pants off because no one has air conditioning. The humidity isn't that bad either. We had a couple snow storms and 2 big ice storms. My sister came up to visit us for 3 months during the summer once and bemoaned the fact it never rained ONCE during her visit when she was so excited for rain. The Salem economy is pretty stable because Portland is so close, and all the government offices are there. Prices are probably quite modest compared to what you are used to. Silverton (as mentioned) is nearby and you could live in either one while enjoying the other, just as in Bend/Sisters. It's less horsey/camping/fishing-outdoorsy, and more cycling and picnicing type of outdoorsy.
If a hip and artsy city is your thing, look no further than Portland. While it is often "gloomy", most residents don't care. They're too busy enjoying the rain from inside their favorite coffee shop or used book store. They have a lovely down town despite being a large city, and I frequently compare it to a smaller NYC. When visiting you might want to hang on to mace or a tazer though... just in case. They do try to keep the city clean, but there's plenty of bad neighborhoods and opportunistic criminals and quite a few down and out homeless. The homeless do fall on the cleaner side, but you will still have to step over them if you're out on the town late in the evening and they've gone to bed in their sleeping bags. They're mostly harmless, and I've got nothing against people who choose the "gypsy" way of life, but it can be a little embarrassing to accidentally step on someone trying to get some shut eye. Portland has jobs, the best regional health care, lots of industry, culture and diversity. Prices are also higher. It is on the border of Washington state (divided by the columbia river) and you can live on whichever side is more advantageous and still reap the benefits of Portland. There are TONS of nice seaside touristy towns within short driving distance.
Beach towns can be really nice, although I dont recommend them because the economy is so tourism based (and unstable) but if you like scenic rocky beaches, wind and storm watching, put Lincoln City and Gold Beach on your potential list. They are the most livable towns in my estimation. Lincoln City if you want Northern wild beaches, Gold Beach if you favor the south-- warmer beaches, more "california-ish", they've been used to california money and tourism for much longer than most areas.
Now, if you liked a lot of the ideas behind Bend, but you're not so hyped on High desert and conifers? You should check out Ashland, Medford and surrounding small towns like Eagle Point. Ashland is the cutesy college town famous for it's Shakespeare festival, and Medford is more the unifying central shopping of the area. It's pretty stable economically. Its just beyond the feet of the western side of the southern cascade locks passage (whereas Bend is the exact opposite, east side of the northern route.) Medford area is also outdoorsy with white water rafting on the rogue river, lots of horsey people, fishing, and gorgeous scenery. Medford is green and rolling hills and woods for the first half of spring and early summer, and as it drys out the hills become more like a savannah. Medford was the last I checked a lot less expensive than Bend, autumn is glorious, and has great dry summers, and a lot of sun. In your shoes, I would look there first. Like Gold Beach, medford and Ashland are considered southern oregon, and there are a lot more cali transplants. If the locals haven't made peace with them yet, at least you'll have company.
So there you have it, this oregonian's suggestion of the best of the best. Unfortunatly DH and I have a plan that includes a small organic farm, and oregon land is just too spendy and the farmers markets are too iffy to count on, so we are next heading to Missouri. Best of luck in your move, and I hope this post helps my karma enough for someone to leave a post as insightful as this one in my similar thread on the Missouri board!
Firstly, I apologize for not responding sooner. It would break my heart to have you think your efforts were all for naught. I know it had to take you some time to sit down, gather your thoughts and compose that post - It IS greatly appreciated! Actually, your post made this entire experience WELL WORTH IT! And I mean that. Wow! What a great synopsis of Oregon. After reading up on various areas myself (and giving it a go on “Find Your Spot.com”), you have enlightened my vision of many of these places I’ve read about, and confirmed for me, that some are of great interest to us! And I can’t thank you enough for that!
But oh boy, after receiving so many hostile responses (with some of those bordering downright abhorrent attitudes towards us), I was quite hesitant to return. Feeling the need to constantly ‘defend’ ourselves as if in a battle - Californians vs. Oregonians, with us being nothing like your typical Californian (me being originally from Indiana, which I've mentioned), but nonetheless, making it doubly disconcerting! It is quite tiresome and NOT what I was expecting when reaching out on this forum. It seems to be a losing battle to get people to see you in a different light other than the one they have already conjured up in their minds. But they don’t know this. They don’t even care. They already have you figured out...in their minds. And I know this...I know this is simply “human nature”, sadly. “Preset” minds, I call it (a “preset” mentality). In my opinion, anyone who can get away from the “preset mentality” are the ones who can actually grow! Spiritually. And as a person. Which in turn, affects their very own surroundings (power of manifestation). Their very own lives. But most people, on average, aren’t even aware of this. And because so, they are only hindering (stifling) their own growth, their own lives. And ultimately, their own “happiness”. And lo’ and behold, these are the ones who usually become bitter, judgmental, shallow-minded and unhappy (deep down). They may seem happy on the outside, but deep down, they’re not...and they know it. Preset mentality = No growth, effecting every aspect of your life!
..and I apologize for going off on a tangent like this, but human nature truly is fascinating and well, this experience just got me thinking...but ALL is good!
And, I would venture to guess, from the comment you made at the very end of your post to me, “I hope this post helps my karma enough for someone to leave a post as insightful as this one in my similar thread on the Missouri board”, by simply having that mindset, you understand where I’m coming from and you would be able to embrace the concept of the power of manifestation. You get it! ...and because so, I know you will attract the same help that you’ve given me, on the Missouri Forum. That’s just how it works!
On a completely different note (but not really since I’m obviously more focused on THIS now rather than locations in Oregon, lol...sorry about that, but I’m almost done )... on a different note, have you ever read or heard of the book, ‘The Secret’ by Rhonda Byrne? It’s a MUST read. If you’re interested, here’s the link to the book on Amazon: Amazon.com: The Secret (9781582701707): Rhonda Byrne: Books
It may be ‘New Age’, but don’t let that scare you or deter you (if it does at all). I’m Christian and I find these same principles parallel a lot of my belief system. I know who my God is and I know from where we get our blessings from and who makes all things possible. This book simply explains the law of attraction. It’s very insightful and uplifting (I just wanted to share that with you, just in case you were interested).
Again, sorry to digress.
Your post. Awesome! That’s all that’s left to say, really. And thank you! Thank you for taking the time and thank you for being so thorough. If you were in front of me, I’d be hugging you right now. Seriously. This was not only very kind of you, but like I said, I KNOW what kind of time went into it. This was the type of post I was hoping for. No, take that back. It was over and beyond! Again, You’re awesome! ..and you have restored my faith in people once again. Well, I do know the “good ones” are out there...it’s just sad that they seem so few and far between. But I know they are there. I received a few "private" posts from very nice Oregonians, apologizing for their fellow Oregonians and they were very helpful as well..very kind. So there you have it.
So yes, from your wonderful and thorough post (and the help of others), we have come to these conclusions. The Bend / Sisters area sound heavenly for us. So far, that is where we’re leaning towards. I actually got goosebumps when I was reading up on Bend on the Find Your Spot website. Just heavenly. Other areas of interest are the Salem / Silverton area and after reading your take, the Ashland / Medford area (of course the outskirts of any of these larger towns / cities would be our target).
We’re familiar with the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland. We definitely have plenty to think about before making plans to come for a visit. But feel enlightened enough, now, to know just where to visit.
And thank you for explaining, as you said, the "prevailing attitudes" of most Oregonians. Unfortunately, I had expressed my understanding and empathy many times but it seemed to fall on deaf ears, but not completely, thank God. But I did get the impression that a lot of these posters where simply just "jumping on the bandwagon", selectively reading or seeing what they wanted to see. Uugh. ...but see, 'good' always prevails!
You might want to check out Leavenworth, Wa. Its a beautiful, quaint little "Bavarian Village" up in the mountains, nature all around you. There are a handful of divisions where huge mansions on large plots of lands have been built so you'd fit right in. Luckily most of them are walkable to town because its so small.
I believe its about a 15 min drive to Wenatachee, where your major shopping would be done. No TJs or Whole Foods, but about 2 hours away is Seattle, so you could do bulk shopping every so often there.
Thanks for your suggestions.
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) The people were nice, the traffic was a breeze, the rural country was lovely, and there were lots of things to do. The beaches are an hour, Portland is an hour, the high dessert is less than 2 hours, and they love their parks! (If you visit be sure to check out Bush park in downtown, and Willamette Missions state park in Brooks just north on the I-5, and silver falls state park) The weather is SO mild. Summer frequently hits the mid 90s and people only complain their pants off because no one has air conditioning. The humidity isn't that bad either. We had a couple snow storms and 2 big ice storms. My sister came up to visit us for 3 months during the summer once and bemoaned the fact it never rained ONCE during her visit when she was so excited for rain. The Salem economy is pretty stable because Portland is so close, and all the government offices are there. Prices are probably quite modest compared to what you are used to. Silverton (as mentioned) is nearby and you could live in either one while enjoying the other, just as in Bend/Sisters. It's less horsey/camping/fishing-outdoorsy, and more cycling and picnicing type of outdoorsy.
You get it! ...and because so, I know you will attract the same help that you’ve given me, on the Missouri Forum. That’s just how it works! 
)... on a different note, have you ever read or heard of the book, ‘The Secret’ by Rhonda Byrne? It’s a MUST read. If you’re interested, here’s the link to the book on Amazon: 
...but see, 'good' always prevails! 
