Sunrail ridership Up, Looks like an Epic Success!! (Miami, Orlando: rental car, to rent)

[WithDisp]

Originally Posted by 0nyxStation

Is parking downtown an easy task in Orlando? Are there any major shopping centers near one or any of the stations? Malls, grocery plazas? Which station is a part of a TOD? Does Fdot own the air rights over the stations? Why is there no alternative connection to the tourist areas? What happens when Brightline terminates at MCO? Should Sunrail go into MCO? You seem to be the rail expert so what do you think?

I'm glad you ask.

Parking Downtown during BUSINESS hours, (i.e. when the train runs), is actually quite smooth. Orlando swells at nights, weekends, and for special events which are random and sporadic. If a show is at the DPAC, the Magic is playing, and there's an event in a park or the museum, then parking is terrible, and the agencies who run the lots charge quite a bit more.

The Performing Arts center was purposively built without a lot, and during shows literally hundreds of people Valet. The line to retrieve your car can take 30 minutes.


The closest shopping center, which is a huge one, is the Florida Mall. About 2 miles from the Sand Lake Station on SunRail. None are particularly close to a grocery in the sense you'd take the train to do your shopping.

The two stops in Downtown Orlando and the one in Winter Park would be TOD stations, as they were built last century when the rail was new. Each new station is essentially a park and ride or a hospital center built off of the former freight line.

I don''t know who owns the air rights over the stations. There's plenty of land around most of them so it
isn't quite a big issue right now.


There's no alternative connection to the tourist areas because
A. ) They were built far away from the CSX freight line.
B. ) Local residents pay taxes to support the train, not tourists.
C. ) Car rental taxes bring in tens-of-millions of dollars to Orange County.


As for Brightline, which I've stated before.

#1 - The most direct route to MCO Airport for those who live in Downtown Orlando and ALL the stops south of it is the #11 bus. When and if Sunrail goes to the airport, it will be SLOWER and MORE EXPENSIVE than the bus. So why do it? It serves absolutely no purpose aside from being 'sexier' than a bus. Instead run the #11 bus 24/7 and create real time tracking/update system so riders can/will rely on it.

#2 - The fate of Brightline running from Orlando to Miami continually is VERY skeptical. No private passenger railroad has succeeded in this country in the last 50 years, and before then it was slim as well WITHOUT competition from airlines. I do hope for it's success- but why would someone spend $100 to go from Miami to Orlando and be stuck once again at the airport. The advantage of city to city rail has been to be placed at a central useful location. MCO is not. I anticipate the Brightline group walking away from the railroad once they sell the land assets valuable to them in South Florida.



What would I do? I depict it in the post below.

[WithDisp]

Whether replacing or supplementing SunRail, a proposed 20 mile Elevated Rail Track would hit the majority of major hubs in Orlando to alleviate traffic and provide transport to those who need it.

This 11 station plan (12 could easily add Tangelo Park) would cost easily 1 Billion in Just Elevated Rail costs (based on 50 million dollars per mile, the avg. cost of Elevated Rail), once you factor in stations and cars you are probably looking at 1.5-2 billion.

That said the cost could be heavily sheltered by all the Private Organizations served by it.
Simon Malls covers the International Outlet, Florida and Millenia Malls.
Universal would benefit greatly in both it's access for tourists going directly from MCO to Universal as well as it's low paid employees can commute in.

The open ended system could be built out on the right hand side too, or replace SunRail and form a loop. However there is already evidence that few use the Orlando Amtrak stop.

[tworent]

SunRail ticket revenue is less than ticketing expense - Orlando Sentinel

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Whether replacing or supplementing SunRail, a proposed 20 mile Elevated Rail Track would hit the majority of major hubs in Orlando to alleviate traffic and provide transport to those who need it.

This 11 station plan (12 could easily add Tangelo Park) would cost easily 1 Billion in Just Elevated Rail costs (based on 50 million dollars per mile, the avg. cost of Elevated Rail), once you factor in stations and cars you are probably looking at 1.5-2 billion.

That said the cost could be heavily sheltered by all the Private Organizations served by it.
Simon Malls covers the International Outlet, Florida and Millenia Malls.
Universal would benefit greatly in both it's access for tourists going directly from MCO to Universal as well as it's low paid employees can commute in.

The open ended system could be built out on the right hand side too, or replace SunRail and form a loop. However there is already evidence that few use the Orlando Amtrak stop.

This kind of route would be amazing

[mikeindeland]

I think that with expanded hours/days and more stops, it will get better. I worked with someone who used it from Debary to the hospital stop in Orlando, and he liked it very much.

[0nyxStation]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

Convert the stations to BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) and sell the trains to another regional transit line. There is nothing that can be done in it's current state. It is a fixed line system that doesn't serve a vast majority of the area and offers a direct route to work for a select few. Pouring limitless millions of dollars into it from here on out is fiscally irresponsible and addresses almost zero when it comes to our need for some form of well-functioning mass transit.

Were there no plans for development to happen near the stations? Does it help Orlando's image to once have rail and then to no longer have it?

[0nyxStation]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Whether replacing or supplementing SunRail, a proposed 20 mile Elevated Rail Track would hit the majority of major hubs in Orlando to alleviate traffic and provide transport to those who need it.

This 11 station plan (12 could easily add Tangelo Park) would cost easily 1 Billion in Just Elevated Rail costs (based on 50 million dollars per mile, the avg. cost of Elevated Rail), once you factor in stations and cars you are probably looking at 1.5-2 billion.

That said the cost could be heavily sheltered by all the Private Organizations served by it.
Simon Malls covers the International Outlet, Florida and Millenia Malls.
Universal would benefit greatly in both it's access for tourists going directly from MCO to Universal as well as it's low paid employees can commute in.

The open ended system could be built out on the right hand side too, or replace SunRail and form a loop. However there is already evidence that few use the Orlando Amtrak stop.

Is this an official alternative being developed or just self created?

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by 0nyxStation

Were there no plans for development to happen near the stations? Does it help Orlando's image to once have rail and then to no longer have it?

The stations can still be utilized for BRT and I don't think image is of major concern to a city that went ahead and put all of this money into a system that was widely predicted to be a flop.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by 0nyxStation

Were there no plans for development to happen near the stations? Does it help Orlando's image to once have rail and then to no longer have it?

The only area I've seen with added development near a station is the Longwood Station. Longwood already has severe congestion issues in that area, so this is not helping anything.

Elsewhere, I see stations in the middle of nowhere, and in areas where most people would not care to walk.

[bmw335xi]

Any update on the Maglev Train from MCO to International Drive? I remember back in 2015 they said it would be elevated to not disturb local traffic and be ready this year. I heard that some goverment agency said they don't want it to be elevated, but hven't heard anything since. Anyone know if this project is still happening?