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Freight travels during those times.
The whole purpose of the line being built was for freight- utilizing it for passenger service was an afterthought.
This is not really a valid argument as the line is SHARED by both freight and SunRail at ALL times of day, freight trains have the ability to use the line while SunRail trains are temporarily parked on station spurs. Night service has already been offered during a few special circumstances in which a private event organizer paid for the system to operate later and had no affect on freight trains..
This is not really a valid argument as the line is SHARED by both freight and SunRail at ALL times of day, freight trains have the ability to use the line while SunRail trains are temporarily parked on station spurs. Night service has already been offered during a few special circumstances in which a private event organizer paid for the system to operate later and had no affect on freight trains..
It's incredibly valid.
Midnight to 5AM and Weekends belong to CSX.
Yes, the train can be shared and rescheduled so both agencies can use the lines- however the fiscal agreement between FLDOT and CSX give them the weekends and nights forum posters are complaining about. Currently the rent CSX gives the rail annually for use of it's tracks is higher than all the fares paid in the first operating year.
Private events can pay to operate the system in lieu of CSX renting the right of way of the tracks, if CSX is in agreement.
If the riders wanted a 7 day, 24 hour operation to be possible, they shouldn't have gone with a commuter rail on Freight lines.
It's incredibly valid.
Midnight to 5AM and Weekends belong to CSX.
Yes, the train can be shared and rescheduled so both agencies can use the lines- however the fiscal agreement between FLDOT and CSX give them the weekends and nights forum posters are complaining about. Currently the rent CSX gives the rail annually for use of it's tracks is higher than all the fares paid in the first operating year.
Private events can pay to operate the system in lieu of CSX renting the right of way of the tracks, if CSX is in agreement.
If the riders wanted a 7 day, 24 hour operation to be possible, they shouldn't have gone with a commuter rail on Freight lines.
I think people were just hoping we could get it to be more similar to Tri-Rail in South Florida.
I personally think satisfaction and ridership of the system would go up on weekdays just with some schedule adjustments. Looking at Tri-Rail in South Florida, they don't set the trains strictly at 30 minute headways peak and 2.5 hour off-peak. That scares me from using Sunrail. Tri-rail, even if I'm too lazy to look at the schedule or plan my day, I know I'm not waiting more then an hour if I arrive at the station. Sunrail? 2.5 hours? Thats just waaayyy too long.
I wouldn't even mind seeing 40-45 minute on the outskirts of peak times that are not currently getting filled (Tri-Rail does this as well). I'd like to see some non-filled peak trains move to 40-45 minutes apart so that way we can at least get closer to 1 hour off-peak with the trains we already have.
I also don't understand the fact that, when people seem to be most likely to ride it during the special events, as parking is not available or likely to be expensive at a destination right on the route, we then decide to waive the fees for it. This is the time where even if they charged an extra "event" fee and the train should be able to turn a profit. People are ready to spend on the train as the alternative is to pay $10+ for a parking spot and deal with the associated headache. Thats not the time to make the train free and make our farebox recovery numbers even worse.
I think people were just hoping we could get it to be more similar to Tri-Rail in South Florida.
I personally think satisfaction and ridership of the system would go up on weekdays just with some schedule adjustments. Looking at Tri-Rail in South Florida, they don't set the trains strictly at 30 minute headways peak and 2.5 hour off-peak. That scares me from using Sunrail. Tri-rail, even if I'm too lazy to look at the schedule or plan my day, I know I'm not waiting more then an hour if I arrive at the station. Sunrail? 2.5 hours? Thats just waaayyy too long.
I wouldn't even mind seeing 40-45 minute on the outskirts of peak times that are not currently getting filled (Tri-Rail does this as well). I'd like to see some non-filled peak trains move to 40-45 minutes apart so that way we can at least get closer to 1 hour off-peak with the trains we already have.
I agree, Tri-Rail is a good model to follow that has proven to be extremely successful for South Florida. With Phase II in the works for SunRail we can only be hopeful that a service expansion will follow suit. At the very least, weekend service is needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Moose
I also don't understand the fact that, when people seem to be most likely to ride it during the special events, as parking is not available or likely to be expensive at a destination right on the route, we then decide to waive the fees for it. This is the time where even if they charged an extra "event" fee and the train should be able to turn a profit. People are ready to spend on the train as the alternative is to pay $10+ for a parking spot and deal with the associated headache. Thats not the time to make the train free and make our farebox recovery numbers even worse.
The few times that SunRail has operated after-hours during special events has been because the event organizer paid to have the system stay open and operating after-hours, in which case SunRail already received the money needed to operate the system, this is why they waive the fees. However, I agree that charging some type of a fee, even if it is discounted, could generate some additional revenues that could be split between the event organizer and SunRail and hence mutually benefit both, but then again, the fee waiver could have also been for PR, to encourage event attendees to try out SunRail in hopes of having some returning customers during normal operation.
I think people were just hoping we could get it to be more similar to Tri-Rail in South Florida.
I personally think satisfaction and ridership of the system would go up on weekdays just with some schedule adjustments. Looking at Tri-Rail in South Florida, they don't set the trains strictly at 30 minute headways peak and 2.5 hour off-peak. That scares me from using Sunrail. Tri-rail, even if I'm too lazy to look at the schedule or plan my day, I know I'm not waiting more then an hour if I arrive at the station. Sunrail? 2.5 hours? Thats just waaayyy too long.
I wouldn't even mind seeing 40-45 minute on the outskirts of peak times that are not currently getting filled (Tri-Rail does this as well). I'd like to see some non-filled peak trains move to 40-45 minutes apart so that way we can at least get closer to 1 hour off-peak with the trains we already have.
I also don't understand the fact that, when people seem to be most likely to ride it during the special events, as parking is not available or likely to be expensive at a destination right on the route, we then decide to waive the fees for it. This is the time where even if they charged an extra "event" fee and the train should be able to turn a profit. People are ready to spend on the train as the alternative is to pay $10+ for a parking spot and deal with the associated headache. Thats not the time to make the train free and make our farebox recovery numbers even worse.
I agree with some of what you said, I don't really like the 40-45 minute schedule only because of something else that you said, being too lazy. I feel its easier for Central Floridans riding SunRail to have a schedule that is either every 30 minutes or every hour. So I say change the schedule to be 30 minutes on peak and 60 minutes off peak. And I also agree with that last part, about waiving the fees when more people are riding it. I would, and I have heard from many others, that they would be willing to pay an extra fee (maybe be about a $1-$1.50 extra) for taking SunRail to events. And then maybe get the contract changed to have some SunRail service on the weekends (every 60 minutes).
I agree with some of what you said, I don't really like the 40-45 minute schedule only because of something else that you said, being too lazy. I feel its easier for Central Floridans riding SunRail to have a schedule that is either every 30 minutes or every hour. So I say change the schedule to be 30 minutes on peak and 60 minutes off peak. And I also agree with that last part, about waiving the fees when more people are riding it. I would, and I have heard from many others, that they would be willing to pay an extra fee (maybe be about a $1-$1.50 extra) for taking SunRail to events. And then maybe get the contract changed to have some SunRail service on the weekends (every 60 minutes).
I think those that are lazy will hardly notice the additional 10 minutes on a couple of the trains. As I said, Tri-Rail does it and it doesn't cause a problem down there, and I don't think they're going to let the costs of SunRail to go up more while increasing the accessibility of the service.
I think people were just hoping we could get it to be more similar to Tri-Rail in South Florida.
I personally think satisfaction and ridership of the system would go up on weekdays just with some schedule adjustments. Looking at Tri-Rail in South Florida, they don't set the trains strictly at 30 minute headways peak and 2.5 hour off-peak. That scares me from using Sunrail. Tri-rail, even if I'm too lazy to look at the schedule or plan my day, I know I'm not waiting more then an hour if I arrive at the station. Sunrail? 2.5 hours? Thats just waaayyy too long.
I wouldn't even mind seeing 40-45 minute on the outskirts of peak times that are not currently getting filled (Tri-Rail does this as well). I'd like to see some non-filled peak trains move to 40-45 minutes apart so that way we can at least get closer to 1 hour off-peak with the trains we already have.
I also don't understand the fact that, when people seem to be most likely to ride it during the special events, as parking is not available or likely to be expensive at a destination right on the route, we then decide to waive the fees for it. This is the time where even if they charged an extra "event" fee and the train should be able to turn a profit. People are ready to spend on the train as the alternative is to pay $10+ for a parking spot and deal with the associated headache. Thats not the time to make the train free and make our farebox recovery numbers even worse.
Right, I think others have mentioned this Sunrail is Orlandos train. FDOT may run it, but its purpose is for Orlando riders. They didnt run the trains on 4th of July, because leadership said the trains would be too filled? Um what? Thats the whole point. You want to get the train filled. When Orlando City and the Magic play the train should also run AFTER the games at least 2 trips north and south from Church Street station. Saying they wont run the trains because too many people will ride it, was confusing. On days where it may be a good idea to run trains late, make the adjustment for the people.
I agree, Tri-Rail is a good model to follow that has proven to be extremely successful for South Florida. With Phase II in the works for SunRail we can only be hopeful that a service expansion will follow suit. At the very least, weekend service is needed.
The few times that SunRail has operated after-hours during special events has been because the event organizer paid to have the system stay open and operating after-hours, in which case SunRail already received the money needed to operate the system, this is why they waive the fees. However, I agree that charging some type of a fee, even if it is discounted, could generate some additional revenues that could be split between the event organizer and SunRail and hence mutually benefit both, but then again, the fee waiver could have also been for PR, to encourage event attendees to try out SunRail in hopes of having some returning customers during normal operation.
That in my opinion is not good business. If a company drops cash for Sunrail to run, they should still charge the fares whether after hours are not. Keep the 3rd party money in reserve. If a company forks over money for guaranteed service, then yea run the trains for the agreed time, but riders shouldnt ride for free. Parking should be free, but riding? Absolutely not.
Right, I think others have mentioned this Sunrail is Orlandos train. FDOT may run it, but its purpose is for Orlando riders. They didnt run the trains on 4th of July, because leadership said the trains would be too filled? Um what? Thats the whole point. You want to get the train filled. When Orlando City and the Magic play the train should also run AFTER the games at least 2 trips north and south from Church Street station. Saying they wont run the trains because too many people will ride it, was confusing. On days where it may be a good idea to run trains late, make the adjustment for the people.
You keep missing the point.
The train was built -with it completely in mind- that it wouldn't run late nights and weekends.
Saying 'the train will be too full' is an excuse to mask that the powers that be screwed up in giving CSX the overall rights to the right of way on weekends, and late night. That was the intent though. This was a government handout to CSX.
I'm in complete agreement, Orlando would have been better off with a train that ONLY runs nights and weekends. Downtown is far more happening for the nightlife scene and for the weekend events then it will EVER be for the 9-5 work crowd.
Any feasibility and usage study would have pointed to this. Failure of a train from planning to inception. We shall see where the next 10 years takes us. Likely SunRail will have it's fair share of growing pains before becoming a useful metro, and despite sounding like a naysayer- I understand the necessity of such a project... my beef is that ANY other system implemented now could have been WAY more effective from the get go.
I agree, Tri-Rail is a good model to follow that has proven to be extremely successful for South Florida. With Phase II in the works for SunRail we can only be hopeful that a service expansion will follow suit. At the very least, weekend service is needed.
Tri-Rail bleeds money and has one of the lowest riderships of a major metropolitan area, especially for a well established rail system.
I'm not sure how you can call that 'extremely successful'.
Surviving with State bailouts, that it has.
Arnanth Prasad of the FDOT has said, SunRail will not be bailed out by the State. Orange, Osceola, and Seminole will pay for it's shortcomings, when and if they come.
As of now it does -not- look good.
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